Hard Times closing

Sedog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you're not allowed to be inside a pool hall it becomes much harder to get a game... The owner still has to keep the lights and electricity on, and pay the rent without any customers though. It's tough all over.

It will be even worse if they open too early and end up getting locked down again because round 2 will be even longer.

On the actual subject, I looked at HT Bellflower on Google Earth. The awnings were in pretty sad looking shape. Assuming the inside was starting to deteriorate as well, the writing may have been on wall for quite some time. I can't say for sure as I wasn't there.

Went to play there about a year and a half ago for the experience of playing in a legendary pool hall. I was disappointed, the tables were worn and stained, but they had a tournament going on with a lot of players. The only tables that looked good were the ten or so tables off to the side that apparently were reserved for some of the better players.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
Went to play there about a year and a half ago for the experience of playing in a legendary pool hall. I was disappointed, the tables were worn and stained, but they had a tournament going on with a lot of players. The only tables that looked good were the ten or so tables off to the side that apparently were reserved for some of the better players.

Is that the place that didn't have air conditioning?
 

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is that the place that didn't have air conditioning?

They had AC but hardly turned it on to save money.

They tightened the pockets on the practice tables that discouraged new players - not good. They added heated carom tables that were often empty.

Is Danny K's still open?
 

poolhallbanger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hardtimes Belleflower...

The largest pool hall in the USA survived to the bitter end without selling alcohol and prohibiting smoking- amazing business model for a gargantuan pool hall on 2 floors.
Hopefully, one day soon, we can all enjoy a game of pool in a public pool hall:D
 

#Cruncher

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The largest pool hall in the USA survived to the bitter end without selling alcohol and prohibiting smoking- amazing business model for a gargantuan pool hall on 2 floors.
Hopefully, one day soon, we can all enjoy a game of pool in a public pool hall:D

What about Chris’s billiards in Chicago?
 

gypsy_soul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nicely written obituary for Hard Times

Over 30 years of glorious billiard history has come to an end. Hard Times Billiards was southern California's hardcore pool players headquarters. No other pool-hall came close to the history and true pure love of billiards. They had no alcohol, no fancy sports TVs. What did they have? They had hardcore tables. Snooker tables, Heated Carom Tables, and 25 tough gold-crown 9-foot tables, and ten of them set impossibly tight for the best players in the world to compete on, complete with arena seating. That's right; one went there to see the best players, like in any other major sports arena.

Hard times was voted the Best pool room in America by Billiards Digest in 1996. New York had Amsterdam Billiards, California, had Hard-times. First opened by the Markulis family and subsequently sold to the Thomason family. Then lastly, to Edie. Hard Times served pocket-billiards for several generations. The best players came here not only from Los Angeles, not only from the state, no, they came from all over the world. Where else is this to happen?

Every day up and coming players would come from all over, to lose to the best in tournaments, or to play in ridiculously high-stake money games. Hard-times was a pro player's top college. This pro-college turned out future billiard stars and billiard pros like Oscar Domingues, who now owns and runs the sister Hard Times, Sacramento, now the last temple of billiards left in California. New York gave us the Jeanette Lee, and Hard Times gave us Mary Avina. POV pool media was also was born at Hard-times. A temple of pool gave us an endless list of other great and notable, but lesser-known players such as; Andy Chen, Box Patterson, Jay Helfert, Jun Almoite, Jenny Lee, Dave Hemmah, Melissa Herndon, Brook Thomason, Ken Thomason, Jerry Matchin, Robin Bell Dodson, Wayne Pullen, Frank Almanza, Chris Robinson, Ruben Bautista, Sal Butera, James Woods, Butch Barba, Mark Barba, Catfish, and Hawaiian Jimmy all that become somebodies the tough way, getting their ass kicked. Wagering big and small, no participation trophies here. You win, you lose, get over it. Where are the kid and teenager future pros players going to go? Where is there another monthly tournament drawing over 90 players plus? One that had been doing so for over 30 years. Huge yearly purse tournaments that attracted the best players from all over the world year in year out. Where else?

The tournaments were, though, local champions when to Hard-Times to lose. Why because being the best in one town or county or even a state was not good enough, not special. For the big tournaments, you had to beat Efren Reyes, Francisco Bustamante, Keith Mccready, Nick Varner, Mike Seigel, Mika Immonen, Alex Pagulayan, Earl Strickland, Buddy Hall, Dennis Orcollo, and Shane Van Boening. In other words, the best in the world. Even the weekly tournament would draw 4 to 5 pros or more on average. For close to no money, you had to beat the likes of Ernesto Domingez, Morro Paez, Bernando 'King Kong' and Jose Parica. Where else can you upstairs and have your cue worked on or made by 'Little AL'?

These are sad times for billiards, Hard-times was a magical place for the hardcore billiard player, and I'm angry. Maybe I'm a dinosaur of times past. I don't love easy tiny tables, and I love playing for money. Still, it feels like little by little, the heart of American billiards is being replaced by easy, small tables and handicapped league systems. Finding a money game is harder and harder. I don't dislike leagues but to me. To me, pool should not be easy or safe. I like my pool serious, and we just lost another temple of pool. To quote the great Barbara Lee, "Pool is not dead" Yes, your right Barbara, pool is not dead, but you know what? We are down, and it hurts. It really does hurt.

http://www.thebilliardnews.com

I don't care what anybody says, league pool is destroying the essence of what pool should be. As stated above pool shouldn't be easy or safe... If it is you are doing it wrong.



I’m with you bud ! Once pool started in the league direction people stopped gambling 70% .... I miss the 80s and early 90s , staying up for days in a 24hr pool room and busting someone !!!! Dang it was awesome! I’m 50 now and tired of hearing I’ll play after League or I have league tonight so I can’t play sets , lol, an excuse anyway ! Lol .... Anyway I feel your pain man . Hang in there
 

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’m with you bud ! Once pool started in the league direction people stopped gambling 70% .... I miss the 80s and early 90s , staying up for days in a 24hr pool room and busting someone !!!! Dang it was awesome! I’m 50 now and tired of hearing I’ll play after League or I have league tonight so I can’t play sets , lol, an excuse anyway ! Lol .... Anyway I feel your pain man . Hang in there

John Mr. 400 Schmitd used to sleep on the bench outside of HT waiting for it to open.
He would not play in the tournament to fade his speed only to call out the winner for $$.
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’m with you bud ! Once pool started in the league direction people stopped gambling 70% .... I miss the 80s and early 90s , staying up for days in a 24hr pool room and busting someone !!!! Dang it was awesome! I’m 50 now and tired of hearing I’ll play after League or I have league tonight so I can’t play sets , lol, an excuse anyway ! Lol .... Anyway I feel your pain man . Hang in there
I'm 50 as well and remember the same. Gambling big when we be C players, coming up through the ranks. Now, other than a couple guys, gotta take the show on the road.
 

GaryB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
John Mr. 400 Schmitd used to sleep on the bench outside of HT waiting for it to open.
He would not play in the tournament to fade his speed only to call out the winner for $$.

Not always. I remember one night when he was matching up with Cliff Joyner getting 10/8 and we had a long wait because he was playing in the 1st Sunday of the Month Tournament--this was when they got almost 100 players every month with many coming from as far away as Arizona--he won the tournament. While waiting I watched Cliff warm up on the table the match was going to be played on. It was absolutely awesome watching him warm up as he seemed to make everything with ease including many that looked like trick shots. John, we called him "Victorville John" at that time, finally won the tournament and the match began with John apologizing for making Cliff wait. Talk about being in stroke! John came from playing 9 Ball all day and Boom it was over. He could have easily given Cliff 10/8. He demolished him!!

LAMas I don't think I know you unless you also go by L.A. Mo. If so you just accidently forgot because you were the one that called me at home about them matching up which you often did when there was a good match or someone tapped out and was looking to sell their cue.

Those were great times. I watched John drop a lot of money to Morro several nights a week while Jack Cooney was teaching him 1 Hole during the day. John kept saying that he could beat Morro that he had to just get over the head trip. He did and Morro could never touch him again.

I remember him coming in to play Jack on a Monday and he was joking with Jack and said "I lose all of this money to you learning the basics of this game and Friday night I lost 2K to Keith while watching him break every rule you had taught me."

Great place and times!
 

Baby Huey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was playing Bernardo Chavez (king kong) and we finished up even and quit. We walked out together and his car was in the back of the lot and mine closer to the entrance. We said our goodbyes and about a minute later I could hear him yelling and I went over to where he was and he told me he had just been robbed by a kid on a bycycle who pulled a gun on him. After that, I never went inside unless I had a parking space close to the entrance.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
I was playing Bernardo Chavez (king kong) and we finished up even and quit. We walked out together and his car was in the back of the lot and mine closer to the entrance. We said our goodbyes and about a minute later I could hear him yelling and I went over to where he was and he told me he had just been robbed by a kid on a bycycle who pulled a gun on him. After that, I never went inside unless I had a parking space close to the entrance.

OUCH!
Gary B and me were watching King Kong and a tall left-handed shooter with a pretty stroke.
King Kong pulls a move on his opponent by powdering his hand and clapping them while the other guy was shooting to his pocket.
They get into an argument. One of Kong's people gets in there and gets on the other man's face. BAD IDEA. He tries to wrestle Kong's opponent.
Bad idea. He gets thrown to the ground and gets a nice southpaw left cross.
He is out !
Kong goes to the light and grabs the money and splits it and takes his bet.
Gives the other guy his money.
Other dude was still out on the floor with double concussion .

Owner Kenny was there . Kong's opponent tells Kenny he won't be back for a few weeks as he's 86'd anyway.
He was not at fault though.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Not always. I remember one night when he was matching up with Cliff Joyner getting 10/8 and we had a long wait because he was playing in the 1st Sunday of the Month Tournament--this was when they got almost 100 players every month with many coming from as far away as Arizona--he won the tournament. While waiting I watched Cliff warm up on the table the match was going to be played on. It was absolutely awesome watching him warm up as he seemed to make everything with ease including many that looked like trick shots. John, we called him "Victorville John" at that time, finally won the tournament and the match began with John apologizing for making Cliff wait. Talk about being in stroke! John came from playing 9 Ball all day and Boom it was over. He could have easily given Cliff 10/8. He demolished him!!

LAMas I don't think I know you unless you also go by L.A. Mo. If so you just accidently forgot because you were the one that called me at home about them matching up which you often did when there was a good match or someone tapped out and was looking to sell their cue.

Those were great times. I watched John drop a lot of money to Morro several nights a week while Jack Cooney was teaching him 1 Hole during the day. John kept saying that he could beat Morro that he had to just get over the head trip. He did and Morro could never touch him again.

I remember him coming in to play Jack on a Monday and he was joking with Jack and said "I lose all of this money to you learning the basics of this game and Friday night I lost 2K to Keith while watching him break every rule you had taught me."

Great place and times!

Alex told me , there are 5 to 6 tables being played on "privately" now.
All tables are still in there .
 

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
GaryB; ….LAMas I don't think I know you unless you also go by L.A. Mo. If so you just accidently forgot because you were the one that called me at home about them matching up which you often did when there was a good match or someone tapped out and was looking to sell their cue.... Great place and times![/QUOTE said:
I am not L.A. Mo who was a Black security Guard back then - nice guy.
 

GaryB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I remember that Joey., The guy Kong was playing was Moto a good 1 Hole player and the guy who got in Moto's face was Kong's backer. Big mistake because as you said Moto nailed him real good. Guy went down and Moto nailed him again. It was funny how
quick Kong got to the light to grab the money. One of the funniest parts was Kenny who owned the place at the time was sitting next to us and he got up real fast and ran the short distance to the table yelling for security over and over. Kenny had forgotten he had fired the Samoan security guys the week before!

That was the only time I ever saw something like that there.

Thanks for the info on the tables. Means options are still on the board unless the whole bldg is scheduled for community redevelopment. The physical configuration of the property is not conducive to leasing. Especially in this economic environment.
 

ibuycues

I Love Box Cues
Silver Member
Is Hard times Sacramento still open?

Yes, absolutely in business. Paying attention to the coronavirus rules right now, ready to open in a matter of days again. They have put in place virus guidelines and precautions for when they open.
Quite a nice room.

Will Prout
 
Top