Hard Tip vs Soft Tip

KRJ

KRJ

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This was from Darren Appleton in a Billiards Digest article. Thoughts?

Most amateurs don’t have a clue about their tips. Really, if you just have a nice dome shape, you should be good. But having the right tip is important. A player with no cue power should be using a soft tip and a player with a lot of power should be using a medium or hard tip.
 
C

Ched

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ChicagoRJ said:
This was from Darren Appleton in a Billiards Digest article. Thoughts?

Most amateurs don’t have a clue about their tips. Really, if you just have a nice dome shape, you should be good. But having the right tip is important. A player with no cue power should be using a soft tip and a player with a lot of power should be using a medium or hard tip.
Click to expand...

Hey - how ya doin RJ? Hope all is well.
Hmmm ... I can read that two different ways.
Power = "hard stroke".
If this is the case, I'm not sure that it agrees with my own line of thinking (which very well could be wrong in the first place). To me a softer tip would tend to slow down a stroke a bit; making the "stroke" even less "powerful".

Power = the ability of the player.
Again - I'm not sure I agree. A very good player can do some amazing things with a soft tip. Granted that a very good player might only want a soft tip in certain instances, but I'm not sure I'd generalize to that extent. Maybe say in straight pool or a smaller table a good player might want a softer tip?
A hard tip can be a beautiful thing on a good break cue; sitll, in the end I'd opt for a medium tip for average or less than average players. (which admittedly I am, although I do enjoy using a soft tip at times).
Now in one sense I can agree, in that a soft tip may give a player less "feedback" on what he's doing. Perhaps that's what Darren is referring to.

I'd certainly enjoy sounding him out as to his line of thinking on the subject.
 
Cardigan Kid

Cardigan Kid

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ChicagoRJ said:
This was from Darren Appleton in a Billiards Digest article. Thoughts?

Most amateurs don’t have a clue about their tips. Really, if you just have a nice dome shape, you should be good. But having the right tip is important. A player with no cue power should be using a soft tip and a player with a lot of power should be using a medium or hard tip.
Click to expand...

I beat you to it, RJ!

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=430589

:grin-square:

Seriously though, it's good to revisit this topic... I was surprised to learn on Sunday from Donny Mills that he shoots with a Kamui black clear Super Soft.
He switched from black SS to black clear SS because he felt he had less miscues with it.

And he doesn't seem any short on cue power. So I'm still up in the air on Darren's comments.
I thought most pros were medium/hard these days.

(On a side note, I also learned from Jayson Shaw that he plays a 12.0mm shaft, taken down from 12.75mm...in case anyone was wondering).
 
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MitchAlsup

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ChicagoRJ said:
This was from Darren Appleton in a Billiards Digest article. Thoughts?

Most amateurs don’t have a clue about their tips. Really, if you just have a nice dome shape, you should be good. But having the right tip is important. A player with no cue power should be using a soft tip and a player with a lot of power should be using a medium or hard tip.
Click to expand...

That is most of us should be using harder tips.
 
HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

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I think Earl has a "power stroke" and he uses an Elk Master.

Efren uses an Elk Master.

According to the Kamui website, Mika uses a Black soft, Niels uses an Original soft, Ralf uses an Original super soft, Thorsten uses an Original soft, Peach uses a Black super soft.

I've been told by many that I have a "powerful" stroke. I had one guy at a tournament keep calling me "Monster Stroke".

Whatever the case, I learned to play old-school pool many, many years ago when the table conditions dictated that you had to have a more powerful stroke to get the ball around the table than you do today.

I prefer a softer tip. I am using a G2 soft on my main playing gue and I have an Ultra Skin Soft on another cue that I just had made. Before I found G2, I had a Black super soft on my cue. Before that I had an old Moori soft.

A soft tip gives me more "feel" for the ball and I can also generate all the spin I ever need from a soft tip. Also, since I tend to hit the ball quite a bit harder than most folks, the soft tip "dampens" my stroke down a bit. When I use a hard tip and hit the balls with my normal stroke, the cue ball comes off the tip too fast and it is harder to control. I don't like babying shots...I like to hit them firm. A softer tip works better for me.
 
K

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
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Cardigan Kid said:
I beat you to it, RJ!

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=430589

:grin-square:

Seriously though, it's good to revisit this topic... I was surprised to learn on Sunday from Donny Mills that he shoots with a Kamui black clear Super Soft.
He switched from black SS to black clear SS because he felt he had less miscues with it.

And he doesn't seem any short on cue power. So I'm still up in the air on Darren's comments.
I thought most pros were medium/hard these days.

(On a side note, I also learned from Jayson Shaw that he plays a 12.0mm shaft, taken down from 12.75mm...in case anyone was wondering).
Click to expand...



Lyn,

I was sitting right there when Donny mentioned about the black clear and the miscues. Not sure we ever met, but we must have been standing right next to each other!

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
Sealegs50

Sealegs50

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HawaiianEye said:
A soft tip gives me more "feel" for the ball and I can also generate all the spin I ever need from a soft tip. Also, since I tend to hit the ball quite a bit harder than most folks, the soft tip "dampens" my stroke down a bit. When I use a hard tip and hit the balls with my normal stroke, the cue ball comes off the tip too fast and it is harder to control. I don't like babying shots...I like to hit them firm. A softer tip works better for me.
Click to expand...

Great post. I do not have a powerful stroke and I prefer hard tips. My experience with soft/medium tips like Elk Master and Everest is that the effect of my stroke is softened too much which forces me to hit harder to compensate. I like moving the ball around with a lighter stroke because it is easier for me to control. If I am careful when chalking and cover the tip evenly, I do not have problems with miscues.

Addressing the OP's question, with due respect to Darren Appleton who is a great player, I do not think these types of generalizations are helpful to players looking for advice on equipment to purchase. These bits of pool player lore last for a long time and can be misleading. IMO, players should try the spectrum of available equipment and choose whatever suits them best.
 
Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
HawaiianEye said:
I think Earl has a "power stroke" and he uses an Elk Master.
Click to expand...

In his prime when he never missed & dominated the world, Earl used Chandivert Rocky, one of the hardest tips you can find.

I tend to agree with Darren. A pure & powerful stroke blends well with a hard tip. From my own experience, everything being the same, I find that hard tips don't have to hit as far from center to generate the same spin as a soft tip hitting the edge of the ball. That said, I find soft tips more forgiving for a stroke that's not quite so pure or confident. I was really surprised when I was at the expo this past year & Mika told me the tip he was using. He has such a pure stroke and perfect mechanics that I assumed he'd be using a harder tip. So there goes my theory :rolleyes:
 
whammo57

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
IMHO

A harder tip gives more cue ball control and spin........... keep the tip almost flat with just a slight dome.......... use a 13mm to 13.2mm diameter.................

for everyday use....... go with ultraskin med

for competition use a G2 med

Kim
 
fastone371

fastone371

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qbilder said:
In his prime when he never missed & dominated the world, Earl used Chandivert Rocky, one of the hardest tips you can find.

I tend to agree with Darren. A pure & powerful stroke blends well with a hard tip. From my own experience, everything being the same, I find that hard tips don't have to hit as far from center to generate the same spin as a soft tip hitting the edge of the ball. That said, I find soft tips more forgiving for a stroke that's not quite so pure or confident. I was really surprised when I was at the expo this past year & Mika told me the tip he was using. He has such a pure stroke and perfect mechanics that I assumed he'd be using a harder tip. So there goes my theory :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

According to people who test these theories scientifically the above is true. I use a tip on the harder end of the spectrum because I play on 7' tables a lot and dont really need to use a break cue on small tables and I like the feedback I get from them over softer tips. I also hate it when soft tips mushroom.
 
S

Sweatin'

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Along these lines, is it possible to get decent results using a Samsara break tip on your playing cue in an emergency?

It would mean needing to haul around one less shaft.
 
pt109

pt109

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Joe Davis said the perfect tip is hard, with a soft epidermis.
...that's what I've been going with.

A soft tip, no matter how well it plays, changes shape too much...for my liking.
 
R

RADAR

AzB Silver Member
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qbilder said:
In his prime when he never missed & dominated the world, Earl used Chandivert Rocky, one of the hardest tips you can find.

I tend to agree with Darren. A pure & powerful stroke blends well with a hard tip. From my own experience, everything being the same, I find that hard tips don't have to hit as far from center to generate the same spin as a soft tip hitting the edge of the ball. That said, I find soft tips more forgiving for a stroke that's not quite so pure or confident. I was really surprised when I was at the expo this past year & Mika told me the tip he was using. He has such a pure stroke and perfect mechanics that I assumed he'd be using a harder tip. So there goes my theory :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

well keep in mind that tables played slower back in the day when earl cleaning house. From my personal experience the faster tables today i changed to a softer tip. for many years always used a much harder cue tip! Again i may be incorrect to most as well.:wink:
 
O

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
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Cardigan Kid said:
I beat you to it, RJ!

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=430589

:grin-square:

Seriously though, it's good to revisit this topic... I was surprised to learn on Sunday from Donny Mills that he shoots with a Kamui black clear Super Soft.
He switched from black SS to black clear SS because he felt he had less miscues with it.

And he doesn't seem any short on cue power. So I'm still up in the air on Darren's comments.
I thought most pros were medium/hard these days.

(On a side note, I also learned from Jayson Shaw that he plays a 12.0mm shaft, taken down from 12.75mm...in case anyone was wondering).
Click to expand...

I know several good players with big strokes that use the clear SS tip , I also use one best tip bar none I ever had ,

1
 
His Boy Elroy

His Boy Elroy

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HawaiianEye said:
I think Earl has a "power stroke" and he uses an Elk Master.

Efren uses an Elk Master.

According to the Kamui website, Mika uses a Black soft, Niels uses an Original soft, Ralf uses an Original super soft, Thorsten uses an Original soft, Peach uses a Black super soft.

I've been told by many that I have a "powerful" stroke. I had one guy at a tournament keep calling me "Monster Stroke".

Whatever the case, I learned to play old-school pool many, many years ago when the table conditions dictated that you had to have a more powerful stroke to get the ball around the table than you do today.

I prefer a softer tip. I am using a G2 soft on my main playing gue and I have an Ultra Skin Soft on another cue that I just had made. Before I found G2, I had a Black super soft on my cue. Before that I had an old Moori soft.

A soft tip gives me more "feel" for the ball and I can also generate all the spin I ever need from a soft tip. Also, since I tend to hit the ball quite a bit harder than most folks, the soft tip "dampens" my stroke down a bit. When I use a hard tip and hit the balls with my normal stroke, the cue ball comes off the tip too fast and it is harder to control. I don't like babying shots...I like to hit them firm. A softer tip works better for me.
Click to expand...
I've played with an Elkmaster straight out of the bag and also an Elkmaster put through the "Milkdud" process by a guy who really knows his stuff. I HATED BOTH TIPS! I'd rather gnaw on my....(nevermind!) than put another one of either of these tips on my cue. Helll....I'd quit the game if all I could play with was an Elkmaster! Both tips felt like miniature marshmellows!

It was an experiment. I went back to playing with Triangles...one of the harder tips around. Having said all that though....ugh....Reyes and Strickland are kinda good! I guess it just goes to show you....Different strokes for different folks!
 
Cardigan Kid

Cardigan Kid

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KMRUNOUT said:
Lyn,

I was sitting right there when Donny mentioned about the black clear and the miscues. Not sure we ever met, but we must have been standing right next to each other!

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
Click to expand...

This isn't Lyn "cardiac kid"...I'm Ryan from Syracuse (the two handles are very similar)
I was right there too, I was the guy with his foot in a cast. I was sitting right there when Donny was talking about tips, must have been right behind you. Haha! Small world!
 
fastone371

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
Sweatin' said:
Along these lines, is it possible to get decent results using a Samsara break tip on your playing cue in an emergency?

It would mean needing to haul around one less shaft.
Click to expand...

I have a phenolic tip on my break cue, I have shot more than a few complete racks with it. If you stay within 1 tip of english you should have no problem, I didnt try pushing the limits to see what I could get away with for max english.
 
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