How would you play this?

Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Andrew Manning said:
Set up: hill-hill against a strong opponent. He just played safe and left you this, but the 5 didn't land quite the way he intended. ...
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I trust myself more to get the 2- or 3-cushion hit than the little nudge.

This sort of shot would make a good challenge between two players who prefer different solutions. Each player starts with the shot he prefers and see who wins more games from the position. There is a small problem with the exact setup on this as the 5-9 line and space are critical. We've had other "How would you play this?" shots that would make good candidates for an AZB Room challenge.
 
mullyman

mullyman

Hung Like a Gnat!
Silver Member
sjm said:
If you don't think this is an easy kick, set it up and try it. I think you'll surprise yourself how easily a good hit on the five is made here.
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Making contact with the kick doesn't concern me in the least. I'm above A-class ranking here in Japan, been playing more than 25 years now. My concern is in what happens afterwards. Let's just agree that the correct shot is whatever the person at the table thinks is his best option. I go with the nudge. I'm a decent player and I like playing defensively. Don't forget that when he steps back to the table with BIH he has to worry about what you're gonna do if he makes a mistake.
MULLY
 
mullyman

mullyman

Hung Like a Gnat!
Silver Member
dabarbr said:
If they could not position the five behind the nine with ball in hand then the nudge is my choice because there is no where on the table that will put me in more trouble than I'm already in. Knowing that the best they could do with BIH is put me back to where I originally was then I would give up BIH to give them one chance to err with their safety.They would have to go off the five thin and take the cue ball two rails to get behind the nine.
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Exactly my thoughts on the matter. Even for a good player he's going to have to be playing pretty snazzy that day to thin the 5 and go across table and back to lock you up behind that 9. That 5 will most likely be peeking out enough no matter where he puts you back there....unless he actually freezes you to the 9. I still prefer not to take a winger unless I absolutely have to.

Now, if that combination was lined up perfectly? Yeah, I'd go with the kick. But again, he said "It might go". It amazes me how so many of the people on here decide on the lower percentage shot.
MULLY
 
Andrew Manning

Andrew Manning

Aspiring know-it-all
Silver Member
Sorry for taking so long to get back to this thread.

I personally don't think either approach (intentional foul "nudge" vs. 2 or 3 rail kick) is objectively wrong. For me it came down to a philosophical decision. I'm facing two possibilities, and either one has a definite chance of losing the game for me. With the kick, I could hang the 9 and sell out an easy combo or carom. With the "nudge", I could roll either ball 1/2" the wrong way, and sell out a combo, carom, or very easy run-out. The guy I was playing against is only a little better than me, but with the balls in their current positions, adjusted so the 5 is makeable, any good player is out from here.

So there's a very clear and present downside to either choice, so I looked at the upsides. The upside of the nudge is I could leave it so he has to play safe, and then have to win a safety battle for the match against a better safety player than myself, with him getting to play the first safe with ball in hand. The upside of the kick is I make the 9 and I win right there on the spot.

I started to try to factor percentages in to the decision, but I realized I was dividing by zero on one side of the equation. I thought of something a lot of people say when deciding whether to call a river bet playing hold 'em: "I'm just trying to think of a hand you could have that I could beat." When someone says this, it always means they realize they have to fold. For the intentional foul, I was trying to think of a way it could play out where I win. I really didn't see one, so I folded that option, and took my only other choice.

-Andrew
 
Marcl3954

Marcl3954

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Andrew Manning said:
Sorry for taking so long to get back to this thread.

I personally don't think either approach (intentional foul "nudge" vs. 2 or 3 rail kick) is objectively wrong. For me it came down to a philosophical decision. I'm facing two possibilities, and either one has a definite chance of losing the game for me. With the kick, I could hang the 9 and sell out an easy combo or carom. With the "nudge", I could roll either ball 1/2" the wrong way, and sell out a combo, carom, or very easy run-out. The guy I was playing against is only a little better than me, but with the balls in their current positions, adjusted so the 5 is makeable, any good player is out from here.

So there's a very clear and present downside to either choice, so I looked at the upsides. The upside of the nudge is I could leave it so he has to play safe, and then have to win a safety battle for the match against a better safety player than myself, with him getting to play the first safe with ball in hand. The upside of the kick is I make the 9 and I win right there on the spot.

I started to try to factor percentages in to the decision, but I realized I was dividing by zero on one side of the equation. I thought of something a lot of people say when deciding whether to call a river bet playing hold 'em: "I'm just trying to think of a hand you could have that I could beat." When someone says this, it always means they realize they have to fold. For the intentional foul, I was trying to think of a way it could play out where I win. I really didn't see one, so I folded that option, and took my only other choice.

-Andrew
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I always feel that giving ball in hand carries a lot of weight. If I can make a hit. I'll take my chances
 
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