Timing in pool

K

Kdogster

Registered
When watching pro matches on youtube, I hear the commentators, especially Mark Wilson, talk a lot about timing. I want to confirm my understanding of it.

I assume timing has to do with the total time taken to pull the cue back (backswing), pausing at the set position, and stroking through. Or, does timing boil down to the time you spend in the set position? This assumes you subscribe to the lazy backswing style and you use the same amount of acceleration on the forward stroke.

The set position time is probably unique to each player and may even be shot specific. I know when you're jacked up on a shot, holding the set position a hair too long can throw things off, so that's one type of shot, where you don't hold the set position more than just a tick. I notice personally on draw shots, if I hold the set position too long, I can get some miscues or unintentional spin. But, using my normal set position time, I can get good results on draw shots, so they aren't a special case.

Does my explanation of timing seem correct? Other than jacked up shots, do people adjust their set position time for any other certain shots, or is the set position time pretty much the same? What do people like for set position time-- Allison Fisher long set time or something less? Any techniques for achieving consistent timing?

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Kdogster said:
When watching pro matches on youtube, I hear the commentators, especially Mark Wilson, talk a lot about timing. I want to confirm my understanding of it.

I assume timing has to do with the total time taken to pull the cue back (backswing), pausing at the set position, and stroking through. Or, does timing boil down to the time you spend in the set position? This assumes you subscribe to the lazy backswing style and you use the same amount of acceleration on the forward stroke.

The set position time is probably unique to each player and may even be shot specific. I know when you're jacked up on a shot, holding the set position a hair too long can throw things off, so that's one type of shot, where you don't hold the set position more than just a tick. I notice personally on draw shots, if I hold the set position too long, I can get some miscues or unintentional spin. But, using my normal set position time, I can get good results on draw shots, so they aren't a special case.

Does my explanation of timing seem correct? Other than jacked up shots, do people adjust their set position time for any other certain shots, or is the set position time pretty much the same? What do people like for set position time-- Allison Fisher long set time or something less? Any techniques for achieving consistent timing?

Thanks for your thoughts.
Click to expand...

Timing is a bunch of different things as you suggest and can be difficult to develop because you 1 have to determine all adjustments for delivery have been made before beginning your routine and 2 you have to be sure that your routine is able to groove and straight stroke and 3 don't over stroke or have endless strokes before you deliver and 4 be able to stop the stroke for a second to release the muscles in the arm that can get in the way of a straight stroke or accelerate in such a way as to not rush through it delivering a crooked stroke because of those muscles.

The SPF stroke prevents that but that stroke isn't for everyone. SPF is a big thing towards perfecting timing and some pros spend a lot of time working on the SPF stroke and nothing else.

I develop a longer pause in my stroke the more I play at one session but generally my pause is very brief.

 
lfigueroa

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Kdogster said:
When watching pro matches on youtube, I hear the commentators, especially Mark Wilson, talk a lot about timing. I want to confirm my understanding of it.

I assume timing has to do with the total time taken to pull the cue back (backswing), pausing at the set position, and stroking through. Or, does timing boil down to the time you spend in the set position? This assumes you subscribe to the lazy backswing style and you use the same amount of acceleration on the forward stroke.

The set position time is probably unique to each player and may even be shot specific. I know when you're jacked up on a shot, holding the set position a hair too long can throw things off, so that's one type of shot, where you don't hold the set position more than just a tick. I notice personally on draw shots, if I hold the set position too long, I can get some miscues or unintentional spin. But, using my normal set position time, I can get good results on draw shots, so they aren't a special case.

Does my explanation of timing seem correct? Other than jacked up shots, do people adjust their set position time for any other certain shots, or is the set position time pretty much the same? What do people like for set position time-- Allison Fisher long set time or something less? Any techniques for achieving consistent timing?

Thanks for your thoughts.
Click to expand...


My interpretation of timing is two-fold.

First, there is the timing involved with getting into shooting position. I think good players find the right amount of time to get all the body parts into optimal shooting position and then try and use that timing with some consistency. Too slow or too fast and maybe something isn't where it should be.

Then there's is the actual time and rhythm for warm up strokes and striking the CB. I think some guys find they shoot best taking it nice and slow, while others find that quickly plopping down and firing away works best for them. Of course there's always a fluid middle ground.

Lou Figueroa
 
BilliardsAbout

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Kdogster said:
When watching pro matches on youtube, I hear the commentators, especially Mark Wilson, talk a lot about timing. I want to confirm my understanding of it.

I assume timing has to do with the total time taken to pull the cue back (backswing), pausing at the set position, and stroking through. Or, does timing boil down to the time you spend in the set position? This assumes you subscribe to the lazy backswing style and you use the same amount of acceleration on the forward stroke.

The set position time is probably unique to each player and may even be shot specific. I know when you're jacked up on a shot, holding the set position a hair too long can throw things off, so that's one type of shot, where you don't hold the set position more than just a tick. I notice personally on draw shots, if I hold the set position too long, I can get some miscues or unintentional spin. But, using my normal set position time, I can get good results on draw shots, so they aren't a special case.

Does my explanation of timing seem correct? Other than jacked up shots, do people adjust their set position time for any other certain shots, or is the set position time pretty much the same? What do people like for set position time-- Allison Fisher long set time or something less? Any techniques for achieving consistent timing?

Thanks for your thoughts.
Click to expand...

It touches both aspects--rhythm and flow of movement and stroke time.

One way to get closer to dead zone stroking is for amateurs to speed up overall play by 10% or so--easier said then done, many rush too fast when attempting to do this.

Another way to improve is to be more precise about the length of your backswing. Some amateurs take an 11- or 12-inch bridge for most shots but greatly vary the length of their backswings, throwing off timing and forcing stroke lunges and jabs on the forward stroke.
 
T

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
ok first off let me say that I don't know what SPF stands for....lol

In my humble opinion, focusing on timing (as it's been discussed thus far) is for people looking to introduce complication into their game. You don't shoot until you're comfortable with what you're doing. Timing be damned. If you find that you're comfort level is declining then stand up and reset. With that said, I've been told on this forum that I don't know what I'm doing so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
 
336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
The_JV said:
ok first off let me say that I don't know what SPF stands for....lol

In my humble opinion, focusing on timing (as it's been discussed thus far) is for people looking to introduce complication into their game. You don't shoot until you're comfortable with what you're doing. Timing be damned. If you find that you're comfort level is declining then stand up and reset. With that said, I've been told on this forum that I don't know what I'm doing so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
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You're not wrong. When you learn how to feel comfortable with what you do then you learn how to make it more and more stable with work and planning.
 
C

Catalin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't think timing has anything to do with what happens before or after the shot.

To me "timing" can only refer to the stroke itself and the relaxation / tightening of the fingers around the cue, to deliver just the right shot and the right speed for that situation. That's what people mean when they say great timing.

Julian
 
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TATE

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
book collector said:
He is the only person I ever heard say that and usually he is talking about breaking.
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I'd go with that one. The break shot does have coordinated timing between the stroke and body thrust (or momentum). Otherwise, I can't see the term being used.
 
G

Geosnooker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The_JV said:
ok first off let me say that I don't know what SPF stands for....lol

In my humble opinion, focusing on timing (as it's been discussed thus far) is for people looking to introduce complication into their game. You don't shoot until you're comfortable with what you're doing. Timing be damned. If you find that you're comfort level is declining then stand up and reset. With that said, I've been told on this forum that I don't know what I'm doing so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...

I’ve played 52 years and also no idea what SPF or CTE or Fargo or most of the Gobbledygook stands for. I do know what SPCA is as we volunteer there. I suppose ‘talk’ is part of the fun of any hobby.

Anyways. I don’t think about timing. I don’t think much at all but keep a clear uncluttered mind. Pro snooker players vary greatly between them as to the amount of time they take between shots, down on the table, draw back, etc. In contrast, what they don’t vary much is their ‘own’ timing. Almost a robotic consistency.

There’s only 65,000 posts in the aiming forum. Someone should start a timing forum. Guru ‘....’ says. It’s amusing how knocking a 2.25” ball into a hole twice it’s size at 7 feet Is more complicated than quantum mechanics.
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I doubt that I've ever used the word "timing" in any discussion about playing pool. It's just not in my vernacular. I do think your 'pace' of play is very important.
 
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K

Kdogster

Registered
Based on the replies, it's clear to me that the term "timing" is ambiguous and leaves plenty of room for interpretation. When Mark Wilson says it, he is probably referring to some broader meaning of how the player executes at the table and what his rhythm/speed are, etc.. I think this is how some of you see it, too.

I was interpreting it in the literal sense of timing, when it comes to delivering the shot. So, the set-pause-finish (SPF) is what I had in mind. Btw, I had to look that up.

I will watch the Mark Wilson Clinic video. Thanks bb9Ball. :thumbup:

I disagree that paying attention to "minor" things like how long you pause is over-complicating something. It's no different than worrying about your grip, the bridge, bridge length, where to position your eyes, etc.. As you become aware of these little things and program a system for how to apply them, it all adds up to make your game better. But, to each his own. I see value in learning the nitty gritty and it doesn't take long to incorporate it, and then you're on auto-pilot applying it thereafter.
 
B

Boxcar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bobby Jones thought about 'tempo.' It's like when all of your stars are aligned. When it happens, if you're alive and paying attention, you'll know.
 
o.g. (old guy)

o.g. (old guy)

mark
Silver Member
I've always thought timing was getting the correct english and speed on the cue ball so that when the cue ball strikes the object ball it retains the optimum speed and spin to make the ball and get position. For instance, a snap draw shot timing is much different than a slow follow shot. Speed of the stroke is crucial for good timing. imho.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Staff member
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The snooker people talk a lot about timing. I may be reading in my own ideas, but it seems to mean the timing of the final forward stroke, or the speed versus time curve. It has nothing to do with playing tempo or moving around the table -- just the power stroke.
 
C

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
The snooker people talk a lot about timing. I may be reading in my own ideas, but it seems to mean the timing of the final forward stroke, or the speed versus time curve. It has nothing to do with playing tempo or moving around the table -- just the power stroke.
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Correct, they are talking about timing the cue to reach the cue ball at peak velocity. So I always see this crucially as avoiding decelerating into the ball, possibly have too slow of an acceleration, jerking the cue forward such that you aren't generating nearly as much speed as you think you are due to tense muscles.
 
T

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Kdogster said:
I disagree that paying attention to "minor" things like how long you pause is over-complicating something. It's no different than worrying about your grip, the bridge, bridge length, where to position your eyes, etc..
Click to expand...

Exactly... so stop thinking about those other things as well...lol.

As you become aware of these little things and program a system for how to apply them, it all adds up to make your game better. But, to each his own. I see value in learning the nitty gritty and it doesn't take long to incorporate it, and then you're on auto-pilot applying it thereafter.
Click to expand...

You are of course correct. Not that you require my okee doke on the subject manner. However, it is waaaay too easy to let these "minor" things become big distractions during difficult times.

I'm willing to wager more players end up hindering their progress by focusing on learning the game, rather than just playing it.
 
K

Kdogster

Registered
The_JV said:
Exactly... so stop thinking about those other things as well...lol.



You are of course correct. Not that you require my okee doke on the subject manner. However, it is waaaay too easy to let these "minor" things become big distractions during difficult times.

I'm willing to wager more players end up hindering their progress by focusing on learning the game, rather than just playing it.
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You are the local pro, so an Okey Doke would be nice. ;) No, I get it. See ball. Hit ball. Drink beer. Keep it simple.

I can't help being a little detail oriented, since I'm a software developer. Details work for me, but I know it's not everyone's bag.
 
Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
The snooker people talk a lot about timing. I may be reading in my own ideas, but it seems to mean the timing of the final forward stroke, or the speed versus time curve. It has nothing to do with playing tempo or moving around the table -- just the power stroke.
Click to expand...
This is the only definition that makes sense to me: timing the shot stroke to accelerate smoothly and hit the CB at the right speed. Doing it right not only produces the right shot speed, but also helps me "feel" the right stance.

pj
chgo
 
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