During out league...

tucson9ball · Sep 23, 2014

Our BCAPL plays on monday nights. During last nights play, we had a minor incident come up that raised some questions. We were playing a new team in our league and didn't know a few of the players. No biggie, most of us are outgoing.

Our team was the home team and got to break first round. One of our players racked the balls for his game and proceeded to break n run. Afterward he went over to shake his opponents hand. His opponent was confused/shocked, what happened? He didn't realise he was playing in a game. A little discussion arose as to what to do. Are you supposed to let your opponent know when he is playing?

Typically, I like to shake hands with my opponent before and after each match, but that's just me. We couldn't find anything in the rules for this situation.

Any opinions? Toss out some of your ideas......should both players be aware of their match for it to be counted? Should it be up to players/captains to notify their players?

3RAILKICK · Sep 23, 2014

That's funny.

Somebody on their team lost....maybe they can pick who it was.

Your player knew who he was playing..but opponent didn't know.

...don't the captains identify the players in the next game?

...I can see this happening with rack your own.

...kind of weird, but kind of funny.

Did the guy not want to accept the loss because he didn't get to shoot? Or was he balking at the loss because he didn't know it was his game?

Was there heavy drinking going on this early in the match?

imho...captains should be naming the players in the game about to start. Whether failure to do so, negates the result...in this B&R case...no.

gatorchad · Sep 23, 2014

I think you have to be sure they know they are playing before breaking the balls. You must make sure they are watching the game to protect their own interest.

tucson9ball · Sep 23, 2014

3RAILKICK said:
That's funny.

Somebody on their team lost....maybe they can pick who it was.

Your player knew who he was playing..but opponent didn't know.

...don't the captains identify the players in the next game?

...I can see this happening with rack your own.

...kind of weird, but kind of funny.

Did the guy not want to accept the loss because he didn't get to shoot? Or was he balking at the loss because he didn't know it was his game?

Was there heavy drinking going on this early in the match?

imho...captains should be naming the players in the game about to start. Whether failure to do so, negates the result...in this B&R case...no.

LOL, it was early, before the drinking got going. Basically the losing team was objecting because they didn't really watch/see the break n run. The losing player wanted a chance to see the game, just in case there was something questionable that came up. I understand their objection, but, after the game before it, they should know who is up next?
Just wondering if anybody else has run into this?
In BCAPL it is rack your own......

Mickey Qualls · Sep 23, 2014

tucson9ball said:
LOL, it was early, before the drinking got going. Basically the losing team was objecting because they didn't really watch/see the break n run. The losing player wanted a chance to see the game, just in case there was something questionable that came up. I understand their objection, but, after the game before it, they should know who is up next?

Just wondering if anybody else has run into this?

In BCAPL it is rack your own......

Ahh... That's a horse of a different color...

I might be able to wrap my head around the guy not realizing he was playing a league match...

But to whine because "I didn't get to see it" ?

Hey, pay attention to the table and not the waitress or the ball game...

3RAILKICK · Sep 23, 2014

gatorchad said:
I think you have to be sure they know they are playing before breaking the balls. You must make sure they are watching the game to protect their own interest.

Sometimes, that is not enough.

One league match, giving the 8, the opponent slopped in the 7 and went into a happy dance. He and his team, absent his captain..who was over talking to the league director about something, were celebrating.

He came over and offered his hand, I shook and said 'nice shot'. His teammate started to gather the remaining ball, I called foul.

...then it got weird..

LD...'why did you shake his hand?'

Me..."I didn't want to be rude."

smoooothstroke · Sep 23, 2014

I guess the BCA needs to add a rule to make sure both players acknowledge that a game is racked and ready to begin.Since the non-breaker has the privilege of checking the rack he should be made aware that the breaker is about to break.

This smells a bit fishy to me,normally both teams know when league play is starting and the captains or others will announce who is playing.I always know who my opponent is before I break the balls it doesn't take a hand shake and introduction,even a nod will do to acknowledge your opponent.

The way this was characterized IDT the guy had to accept the break and run.This situation is a natural consequence of rack-yer-own and should be addressed IMO.

Black-Balled · Sep 23, 2014

3RAILKICK said:
Sometimes,

LD...'why did you shake his hand?'

Me..."I didn't want to be rude."

ctyhntr · Sep 23, 2014

Do you use a score sheet? Do both teams have separate score sheets, or you share the scoresheet? Were the names of both players written down?

hang-the-9 · Sep 23, 2014

3RAILKICK said:
Sometimes, that is not enough.

One league match, giving the 8, the opponent slopped in the 7 and went into a happy dance. He and his team, absent his captain..who was over talking to the league director about something, were celebrating.

He came over and offered his hand, I shook and said 'nice shot'. His teammate started to gather the remaining ball, I called foul.

...then it got weird..

LD...'why did you shake his hand?'

Me..."I didn't want to be rude."

That is great. They assumed you would concede but if the opponent went up to you, you did not get up to shake hands when he made the shots or do anything else, that was a foul when they moved the balls.

I once left an 8 ball in the jaws, the player shot it in, and of course hit it at 5 times the speed needed with draw at a slight angle and scratched in the other corner. Since then I let anyone shoot the game winner, if they want to show off how hard they can hit it, fine with me

My son gave up a ball in hand on the 10 ball in a pretty big tournament (the NJ state championship) while he was on the hill and the other guy needed 2. Instead of conceding he sat quietly and watched the guy miss a ball in hand 10 ball to leave it for him to knock in for the win.

hang-the-9 · Sep 23, 2014

tucson9ball said:
-- snip -- Are you supposed to let your opponent know when he is playing?

-snip -
Any opinions? Toss out some of your ideas......should both players be aware of their match for it to be counted? Should it be up to players/captains to notify their players?

That's just silly. Who does not know they are playing? Did you pick the players for the game? Did everyone settle down and the player racked and broke? What the hell did the other player think was going on?

If I went in for a proctologist apt. and the guy got his glove and lube on and stuck it in, I'm not going to turn around to him afterward and say "oh, I did not know that was the exam, you better do it again". It's pretty damn obvious what is going on.

tucson9ball · Sep 25, 2014

ctyhntr said:
Do you use a score sheet? Do both teams have separate score sheets, or you share the scoresheet? Were the names of both players written down?

Both teams have a score sheet. You would think they could look and see who is up next and be ready, but who knows?

StuartTKelley · Sep 25, 2014

tucson9ball said:
Our BCAPL plays on monday nights. During last nights play, we had a minor incident come up that raised some questions. We were playing a new team in our league and didn't know a few of the players. No biggie, most of us are outgoing.

Our team was the home team and got to break first round. One of our players racked the balls for his game and proceeded to break n run. Afterward he went over to shake his opponents hand. His opponent was confused/shocked, what happened? He didn't realise he was playing in a game. A little discussion arose as to what to do. Are you supposed to let your opponent know when he is playing?

Typically, I like to shake hands with my opponent before and after each match, but that's just me. We couldn't find anything in the rules for this situation.

Any opinions? Toss out some of your ideas......should both players be aware of their match for it to be counted? Should it be up to players/captains to notify their players?

I think it's the responsibility of the player and the team putting up the player. Sounds like sour grapes. And by the way, he didn't end up in a game, so technically he wasn't in one... after you broke and ran on him. Nice work.

Wileydog · Sep 25, 2014

tucson9ball said:
Our BCAPL plays on monday nights. During last nights play, we had a minor incident come up that raised some questions. We were playing a new team in our league and didn't know a few of the players. No biggie, most of us are outgoing.

Our team was the home team and got to break first round. One of our players racked the balls for his game and proceeded to break n run. Afterward he went over to shake his opponents hand. His opponent was confused/shocked, what happened? He didn't realise he was playing in a game. A little discussion arose as to what to do. Are you supposed to let your opponent know when he is playing?

Typically, I like to shake hands with my opponent before and after each match, but that's just me. We couldn't find anything in the rules for this situation.

Any opinions? Toss out some of your ideas......should both players be aware of their match for it to be counted? Should it be up to players/captains to notify their players?

It's been my experience that both teams practice up to and sometimes beyond league start time. There is no reason for the other team to assume the player started the match, if he didn't make the other player aware of it. The other player has a right to watch the game and shouldn't have to accept the break and run.

qbilder · Sep 25, 2014

In my experience, opposing players wish each other luck or at minimum give a nod to acknowledge they are beginning a game. It's pool etiquette. If your team was warming up immediately before the match started, then fluidly transitioned from warming up to beginning the match, and no acknowledgement was rendered between the two players, then it's very plausible that an opponent could have not known he was in a match. If that's the way it played out, then yes the BCAPL should create a rule dictating that both players render an acknowledgement before beginning the game. Again, in my experience it was always done as a courtesy, etiquette, and has never been a problem. But seeing that it apparently is a problem for some folks, a rule should be created.

qbilder · Sep 25, 2014

Wileydog said:
It's been my experience that both teams practice up to and sometimes beyond league start time. There is no reason for the other team to assume the player started the match, if he didn't make the other player aware of it. The other player has a right to watch the game and shouldn't have to accept the break and run.

You posted just before I did. I agree that if this is how it played out, then yes the player has the right to not accept the loss.

fastone371 · Sep 25, 2014

gatorchad said:
I think you have to be sure they know they are playing before breaking the balls. You must make sure they are watching the game to protect their own interest.

I wish the guy I am playing good luck. Other than that I really do not care what he is doing, I am not there to babysit for him. I certainly will not interrupt my game to make sure he is watching. On a few occasions I have shot incomplete shots that my opponent did not see, I was not trying to trick him in any manner, if he asks I will give him an honest answer, but if he is too busy trying to empty as many beer bottles as humanly possible it is not my duty to make sure he is watching. If I foul, for example bumping the cue ball with my cue I will pick up cue ball and hand it to him whether he was watching or not. This happened to me in a tournament in the final 8 a couple weeks ago, my opponent had to ask what happened. I call all shots & the 8 that are not obvious by pointing with my cue, the responsibility falls on my opponent to make sure that he is paying attention to the game, not me.
If it was the opening game of the match and everybody else was getting ready and stuff its hard to say what should be done here without being there. If it was the second or later game of the match the captain needs to chew the teammate a new excretion hole for his lack of awareness.

Old Nine Baller · Sep 25, 2014

tucson9ball said:
Our team was the home team and got to break first round. One of our players racked the balls for his game and proceeded to break n run. Afterward he went over to shake his opponents hand. His opponent was confused/shocked, what happened? He didn't realise he was playing in a game. A little discussion arose as to what to do. Are you supposed to let your opponent know when he is playing?

Any opinions? Toss out some of your ideas......should both players be aware of their match for it to be counted? Should it be up to players/captains to notify their players?

I've never played on a league so I don't know the protocol but look at a situation that could've occurred; Let's say the guy who racked the balls and then broke & ran out had missed a ball, leaving his opponent an easy run out. His opponent walks over to take his very easy shot & run out and the shooter says "oh no, it's not your shot, I was just practicing until you got here".

That's also a possibility is it not?

I suppose there's a rule somewhere to cover this but I would not want to be playing and losing a game that I didn't even know was being played.

ONB

RackRunner · Sep 25, 2014

It is common courtesy to acknowledge your opponent in whatever means you see fit, a nod, handshake, good luck or whatever. If not, you're asking for trouble. I have seen some real dirty, low down, under-handed crap pulled by pool players. So unless my opponent acknowledges the fact that the game has started, there's no way I'm accepting a tap on the shoulder, followed by "nice game, I just broke and ran on you."
I actually saw a world-class 9 ball player who was playing in our 8 ball league break and have no shot right about the time our favorite NFL team scored a TD, and while everyone else was watching the replay of the TD, he pocketed a ball with his hand to give himself a shot. I called him on it and he tried to tell us that in some leagues you could do that. Bullsh*t! So yeah, make sure your opponent knows he's playing in a game.

alstl · Sep 25, 2014

tucson9ball said:
Our BCAPL plays on monday nights. During last nights play, we had a minor incident come up that raised some questions. We were playing a new team in our league and didn't know a few of the players. No biggie, most of us are outgoing.

Our team was the home team and got to break first round. One of our players racked the balls for his game and proceeded to break n run. Afterward he went over to shake his opponents hand. His opponent was confused/shocked, what happened? He didn't realise he was playing in a game. A little discussion arose as to what to do. Are you supposed to let your opponent know when he is playing?

Typically, I like to shake hands with my opponent before and after each match, but that's just me. We couldn't find anything in the rules for this situation.

Any opinions? Toss out some of your ideas......should both players be aware of their match for it to be counted? Should it be up to players/captains to notify their players?

New rule this year any time that happens you have to send me $1,000 dollars via paypal.

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