Watching mr. 400 trying to break the record
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Grady was much closer to Willie's age and competed in the same tournaments and same era. I would say he saw things through the same eyes during that time frame.
You, yourself say, you were a kid when you witnessed some of the exhibitions. I would say your way of seeing things may have been a little different than the actual competitors. Wouldn't you? Kids always seem to put their heroes on a pedestal.
Grady may have had a personal beef with Willie but that would be between them. Many others have said that Harold Worst may have been the best player ever. He died young so who knows what he may have done if he got to play longer?
Willie Mosconi was arguably and on paper the best 14.1 player to live on our planet. His record stands to this day at 526.
I believe some day, this record like all others will be beat. Will it be John Schmidt? I don't know. He seems to be the only one actively trying.
All this back and forth about table size, lighting, condition of balls.....BS! If somebody runs 527 or more with witnesses, it will stand as the new record. Period!
I will point out one thing that you mention above. Willie avoided the "tight" house table which made perfect sense. Were those the tables with 4.5" pockets which were considered tight back in the 60"s?
John has had many runs over 150 on Diamond tables that fit the description. Nowadays we just call those "pro cut" pockets.
JMHO
the reason no other pros are attempting is the lack of financial incentive to do so. the firepower is there, we saw that at the derby straight pool challenge..
Here are some quotes, just from this thread alone. I didn't bother using forum search, as the same arguments are re-hashed.
Mosconi did it on an 8 foot home table with big pockets and slow cloth.
The record needs to move on as conditions are incomparable.
Mosconi did it on an 8 foot home table with big pockets and slow cloth.
The record needs to move on as conditions are incomparable.
You are saying those remarks are disparaging?
They read like facts to me.
Another fact: mosconi's record has stood for 60+ years.
Have you been using that sensitive toothpaste again?
Says not to swallow it. Now look at ya.
Pool has it's high's and low's. All players exhibit this in their game. Willie was doing ,an exhibition on a table one day that something happened. He hit a zone when his true game was on and ran the daylights out of all obstacles that were presented to him.
I truly wish John the best in breaking the record, but I have a mind set, that this record, when it is bested , will be broken with that approach. I will come out of the blue, just like it happened before, by Willie. Setting up to break this record is a great thing, but it can also lead to shell shock so to speak. Again John is one of the greatest players in the world at this game, and I hope he makes it . I think I saw one of these runs and it was into the high 400's before a crazy scratch came along, That's so strong in my world, it's hard to fathom.
:thumbup:
I truly wish John the best in breaking the record, but I have a mind set, that this record, when it is bested , will be broken with that approach. I will come out of the blue, just like it happened before, by Willie. Setting up to break this record is a great thing, but it can also lead to shell shock so to speak. Again John is one of the greatest players in the world at this game, and I hope he makes it . I think I saw one of these runs and it was into the high 400's before a crazy scratch came along, That's so strong in my world, it's hard to fathom.
:thumbup:
About any "demands" Mosconi might have made, maybe Grady was just mistaken.
The reason I say that is because each time I saw Mosconi give an exhibition he brought his own set of balls. They looked polished up. So IOWs, the room wasn't providing him the balls.
And on several occasions I saw him put on his exhibition at a room at which 1pocket was the main game and he played on the front "money table" which had the tightest pockets in the room. He ran 100 each time and all the regulars murmured about how easy he made that table look.
Lou Figueroa
The reason I say that is because each time I saw Mosconi give an exhibition he brought his own set of balls. They looked polished up. So IOWs, the room wasn't providing him the balls.
And on several occasions I saw him put on his exhibition at a room at which 1pocket was the main game and he played on the front "money table" which had the tightest pockets in the room. He ran 100 each time and all the regulars murmured about how easy he made that table look.
Lou Figueroa
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This is kinda funny.
Several posters here have taken issue with those disparaging JS's current high run attempts and wailed that, for some, any record produced will never be accept. Yet here we have you, the Grand Poobah of 14.1, lol, issuing a pronouncement that (hear ye, hear ye) regardless of conditions and the occasional foul, it will be the record, "Period!"
Damn. To have that kind of power (woo wee).
And oh by the way, tight pockets never slowed Mosconi up. Neither did 5'x10's.
Lou Figueroa
funny stuff
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Are you one of those guys like Chris Mad Dog Russo who refuses to believe that their heroes growing up can ever be mentioned in the same sentence as the greats of today's game? You guys are worst, and I say that in a nice way. I bet if someone were to out hit DiMaggio's record you would start complaining that the conditions were so different back then compared to today, so it wouldn't count, right?
the thing is, no one ever said that. You've been on that narrative forever it seems. Please point out where anyone here ever claimed that.
Seriously, I look at what john is doing as a great undertaking. and I say that because you do not see any other players(players better than him btw) attempting a shot at this. and he's not doing it because he wants to say he is better than mosconi, cause john is smart enough to realize he isn't.
yes Willie did bring a set of balls to most exhibitions, so room owners were NOT waxing them up at intervals as someone stated here, and yes he sometimes did play on the "house' table and still ran 150 or so- thanks for helping bring out the true facts as I do get a lot of pushback here from others when I just try to state what I know or see.
First of all, Grady was a couple of generations behind Willie, about thirty years younger in fact. He NEVER played in any tournaments Willie played in! Grady came up in the 60's, just like me, and Willie only played one tournament in the 60's in Burbank, CA in 1966. He lost to Joe Balsis and Grady was not entered or invited. Grady was NOT a top Straight Pool player, nowhere near the best of his era. Guys like Mizerak, Mike Sigel, Ray Martin, Jim Rempe, Nick Varner, Dallas West and a dozen others would eat him alive at 14.1!
The only place he could guarantee a 100 ball run was in his own mind. Grady tended to be a bitter man when he felt somehow offended and that could happen rather easily. One thing he was correct about is that several of Willie's so called "World Championships" were achieved by winning a challenge match against a single opponent. Of course these opponents were guys like Irving Crane, Jimmy Caras and Andrew Ponzi, no slouches themselves.
Harold Worst was one of the greatest players to ever live, but he also never competed against Willie in a tournament. Harold was probably 10-15 years older than Grady and 20 years younger than Willie. In Pool, every ten years is a new generation.
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Willie brought his own balls to every exhibition I ever witnessed. He would play on the table (Brunswicks, usually Gold Crowns) that had the most room for viewing. All he asked for was good cloth and a clean table that had been set up properly. If he hit balls on the table prior to the match and it had any bad roll offs he would demand to play on another table, as well he should. I never saw or heard him complain about the pockets, standard Gold Crown sizing being what he usually played on (4.75-5").
Typically his pre-match routine was to set up some of his trick shots to make sure he could make them all right on the particular table. He liked to make them on the first try.
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i dunno exactly but filler ran 285 and dennis 260, melling 250ish, in the end the low limit for qualifying for the 14.1 mini tourney was very high, like 170. and this is on a pro diamond with limited attempts (and limited time)
given an incentive i have no doubt the pros of today could produce some really high runs. but there is almost no straight pool tournament left and hence little reason to play the game
Thank you for this! I had the pleasure of speaking with Willie one night later in his career as he went through his pre exhibition routine to test the table for everything he wanted to see as to it's speed, angle rebound, and diamond to diamond trueness. He spent some time with me explaining what he was looking for during this routine and I will never forget it!
penny starting 2nd lap now
needs two laps and a little less than racks
needs two laps and a little less than racks
Jay,
I totally agree with everything you said. Two generations apart is accurate; births in 1913 vs. 1943. Per his wiki site, when Grady won his first “big” title in 1983 at Red’s, Willie was 70 (or just turning 70), and they never collided or competed.
I am not dissing Grady in the least, just pointing out a couple facts as you did. I have been playing straight pool since the late 1950s, and know how gargantuan a feat a 526 ball run is.....on any table size, with whatever cloth/rails, no matter the pocket size, humidity, engineered cue, ball composition, etc.
They each matter a bit; some help, some hinder.......but 526 balls...wow! Home run!
Will Prout
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less than 16 racks needed
ran 22 racks so far
ran 22 racks so far