Is this a legal hit

bbb · Mar 10, 2016

you have ball in hand in the kitchen after a scratch
would this be legal or a foul
my interpretation of the rule is it is legal since the cue ball went over the head string before contacting the ball
from the rule book
......
.......
6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String
When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact[/B]. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct.
The cue ball must either cross the head string or contact a ball in front of or on the head string or the shot is a foul, and the cue ball is in hand for the following player according to the rules of the specific game.
.......
.......

Atlatlien · Mar 10, 2016

It's legal. You're shooting out of the kitchen. No rule saying a ball in the kitchen can never be contacted.

I tend to shoot these as a one-rail kick off the foot rail, maybe using a long rail for a 2nd rail.

Bob Jewett · Mar 10, 2016

The World Standardized Rules do not require contacting anything outside the kitchen. For example, you could play a masse shot that curves around the headspot and comes back to pocket the ball.

The BCAPL rules require you to contact something outside the kitchen before contacting any ball inside. One shot is to shoot nearly parallel to the headstring, contacting the side cushion just outside the kitchen. Heavy sidespin can bring the cue ball back into the kitchen to pocket the hanger.

randyg · Mar 10, 2016

Bob Jewett said:
The World Standardized Rules do not require contacting anything outside the kitchen. For example, you could play a masse shot that curves around the headspot and comes back to pocket the ball.

The BCAPL rules require you to contact something outside the kitchen before contacting any ball inside. One shot is to shoot nearly parallel to the headstring, contacting the side cushion just outside the kitchen. Heavy sidespin can bring the cue ball back into the kitchen to pocket the hanger.

In the BCAPL, after the break there is no kitchen. Everything is ball-in-hand.

randyg

Bob Jewett · Mar 10, 2016

randyg said:
In the BCAPL, after the break there is no kitchen. Everything is ball-in-hand.

randyg

With the exceptions of 14.1 and one pocket.

trob · Mar 11, 2016

of course its legal

CGM · Mar 11, 2016

Even if it wasnt legal, id buy you a beer if you made it.

3RAILKICK · Mar 11, 2016

Legal.

It's a hanger for you bbb...:thumbup:

Kickin' Chicken · Mar 11, 2016

heavily endorsed by 3railkick & kickin chicken. :smile:

rookiepsu · Mar 11, 2016

bbb said:
you have ball in hand in the kitchen after a scratch
would this be legal or a foul
my interpretation of the rule is it is legal since the cue ball went over the head string before contacting the ball
from the rule book
......
.......
6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String
When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact[/B]. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct.
The cue ball must either cross the head string or contact a ball in front of or on the head string or the shot is a foul, and the cue ball is in hand for the following player according to the rules of the specific game.
.......
.......
View attachment 415193

That shot is fine, but you should corner-hook yourself frozen to the facing along the short-rail and aim a hair past the first diamond on the opposite long-rail with center cue. Looks much more impressive.

Str8PoolMan · Mar 12, 2016

It's not just legal, it's a good idea...

Bob Jewett said:
... One shot is to shoot nearly parallel to the headstring, contacting the side cushion just outside the kitchen. Heavy sidespin can bring the cue ball back into the kitchen to pocket the hanger.

That's the way I used to shoot this shot. I was very good at it. Unfortunately, in some circles, one tends to get arguments from the opponent about whether the cue ball actually made rail contact outside the kitchen, so it's best to be careful when shooting this. I also had one gentleman claim the rules stated the cue ball had to contact the far rail (the foot rail) for a bank to be legal in that situation.

It's one of those shots that, in reality, isn't that difficult to learn, but always garners praise and adulation from the railbirds when they witness it.

alstl · Mar 12, 2016

Legal but not how I would shoot it.

tatcat2000 · Mar 13, 2016

Another WSR situation

As Mr. Jewett observed in post #3, there is no requirement in WSR to contact a cushion outside the kitchen before contacting a ball in the kitchen, as long as CB crosses the head string first.

In 14.1, Player A has just scratched on the 13th ball. With BIH in the kitchen and the 3-ball in the kitchen, what is Player B's play?

Cut the 3 in the corner. CB has crossed the head string before contacting the ball in the kitchen - legal shot under WSR. :smile:

Not a legal shot in CSI/BCAPL play.

Edit - left the spotted 13th ball off the diagram. even with that spotted ball there, the play still works as an option.

Corwyn_8 · Mar 13, 2016

CGM said:
Even if it wasnt legal, id buy you a beer if you made it.

This is actually a shot that some people use to evaluate how the table is playing, when they use one of the 'diamond systems'. Aside from the placement of the cue ball, this might well be how I played this shot, especially if I checked the table before playing.

DrDave Video on the corner-5 diamond system.

Thank you kindly.

bbb · Mar 13, 2016

i appreciate the replies....:thumbup:
but the example i gave was just that to illustrate the question
I WAS NOT ADVOCATING IT IS THE BEST SOLUTION

Black-Balled · Mar 13, 2016

Is there some recognized rule set tha puts the incoming player on that position?

Seems like a bit of a reward for the outgoing shooter...what if instead of the yellow ball hangin in the corner, it is attaced to the headrail...and anohter ball? Youd be a fool to try to hit them.

Bob Jewett · Mar 13, 2016

Str8PoolMan said:
... I also had one gentleman claim the rules stated the cue ball had to contact the far rail (the foot rail) for a bank to be legal in that situation. ...

I'm pretty sure there is a YouTube video of Balsis shooting the shot (just out and back in with spin), perhaps against Crane just before Crane runs 150-and-out on him.

gumpys · Mar 14, 2016

Str8PoolMan said:
That's the way I used to shoot this shot. I was very good at it. Unfortunately, in some circles, one tends to get arguments from the opponent about whether the cue ball actually made rail contact outside the kitchen, so it's best to be careful when shooting this. I also had one gentleman claim the rules stated the cue ball had to contact the far rail (the foot rail) for a bank to be legal in that situation.

It's one of those shots that, in reality, isn't that difficult to learn, but always garners praise and adulation from the railbirds when they witness it.

Totally agree. Have had it happen quite a few times lol.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

Is this a legal hit

bbb

AzB Gold Member

Atlatlien

AzB Silver Member

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member

randyg

www.randygpool.com

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member

trob

AzB Silver Member

CGM

It'd be a lot cooler if you did.

3RAILKICK

AzB Silver Member

Kickin' Chicken

Kick Shot Aficionado

rookiepsu

AzB Silver Member

Str8PoolMan

AzB Silver Member

alstl

AzB Silver Member

tatcat2000

AzB Silver Member

Attachments

Corwyn_8

Energy Curmudgeon

bbb

AzB Gold Member

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member

gumpys

AzB Silver Member