Wing Ball Won't Go? Magic Rack...

tucson9ball

tucson9ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have played on many tables but for this thread I'm going to focus on a 9ft Diamond table. At home I have a 9ft Diamond Pro with Simonis 860HR. I practice breaking and the wing ball goes in almost every time. It just shoots into the corner and I basically just play shape on the 1 ball.
I've noticed that I go over a buddies house and he has a 9ft Diamond ProAm with Simonis 860HR. Neither one of us can make the wing ball to save our life. I figured there was something wrong with his table?
So...recently I play a challenge match on one of the local tables at a pool hall. It's a 9ft Diamond Pro Am with Simonis 860HR. The wing ball won't go in at all. I finally gave up during a match and just started swinging for the fences to make any ball. Luckily this worked and I eeked out the win.
The next week, the pool hall moved the camera to a different 9ft Diamond ProAm. I played a challenge match on it and made the wing every time, just like home.
So....has anybody else had a similar problem? What would cause the wing ball to not go in?(besides the obvious...balls not frozen). I'm using the same Magic Rack during all these matches...so it's not the rack.
And...GO....
 
D

drv4

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Could balls being dirtier or more warn cause more friction and therefore the wing ball to not be wired?
 
J

justaplayer

Banned
Different tables, different balls who knows.

You need to break from closer to the spot to get the wing ball to hit lower down the long rail, lower the speed of your break too. If it can't be made then abondon making the wing ball and play the 1 in side.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Sometimes there will be significant divots/craters in the rack area that prevent the balls from racking properly even with a template. Sometimes it helps to move the template a quarter inch up/back. That same quarter inch probably won't prevent the wing ball from going in. Similarly, a rack that is twisted only a tiny bit won't make the wing ball undead due to the angle, but it might affect how tightly the balls will rack.

Try checking all the contact points.

Another thing to try is to rack at the other end of the table to get away from the craters.
 
caff3in3

caff3in3

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
tucson9ball said:
No, I check that as soon as the wing ball misses, short of the pocket. The spot is in the correct place....
Click to expand...
Same magic rack on each table? Possible that it is from a different batch. Also, try taking the balls from your place to one of the others and try that.

Another thought, how did you check the spot? Maybe the spot on your table is the one that is off. measure from the side and the back rails to the spot on all 3 tables (if you just eyeballed it the first time).

Dirty cloth maybe?

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
 
BRussell

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Where does the wing ball go in those cases where it misses? Same place every time - long rail or short rail next to the corner it should go in? I'd think that would tell you a lot.
 
tucson9ball

tucson9ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
drv4 said:
Could balls being dirtier or more warn cause more friction and therefore the wing ball to not be wired?
Click to expand...

Hmmm, this is a possibility. At my house the balls are kept fairly clean. My buddies house, not sure and pool hall well....they are dirty.
 
tucson9ball

tucson9ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
Sometimes there will be significant divots/craters in the rack area that prevent the balls from racking properly even with a template. Sometimes it helps to move the template a quarter inch up/back. That same quarter inch probably won't prevent the wing ball from going in. Similarly, a rack that is twisted only a tiny bit won't make the wing ball undead due to the angle, but it might affect how tightly the balls will rack.

Try checking all the contact points.

Another thing to try is to rack at the other end of the table to get away from the craters.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, good info. I will try moving the rack down a bit at the pool hall. Maybe people are pounding the balls into submission? Who knows....
 
tucson9ball

tucson9ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
caff3in3 said:
Same magic rack on each table? Possible that it is from a different batch. Also, try taking the balls from your place to one of the others and try that.

Another thought, how did you check the spot? Maybe the spot on your table is the one that is off. measure from the side and the back rails to the spot on all 3 tables (if you just eyeballed it the first time).

Dirty cloth maybe?

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yes, same rack, I bring it from my house.
I check the spot from the diamonds on the table using my cue as a straight edge.
Dirty cloth or balls......good idea.
 
tucson9ball

tucson9ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BRussell said:
Where does the wing ball go in those cases where it misses? Same place every time - long rail or short rail next to the corner it should go in? I'd think that would tell you a lot.
Click to expand...

It is missing short of the corner, it hits the side rail a couple inches from pocket.
This is using a fairly soft break, maybe 18 MPH.
 
N

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have the same problem on my table. On mine, I have marked exactly where the rack goes so it is in the same place every time. Wing ball used to go all the time. Now, it never goes. Hits the long rail same place every time.

Here's my take on it- racking in the exact same spot every time will eventually cause divots under the balls. In time, those divots actually get deeper. I believe this changes how the rack comes apart.

With newer cloth, shallower or no divots means the back of the rack will start to spread just a hair before the wing ball moves. This causes the correct carom angle for the the wing ball to be made.

Once the divots get deeper, the back of the rack needs more force applied to it to come out of the divots. This causes a slight hesitation on the back of the rack moving, and the wing ball actually starts moving before the back of the rack moves. That causes the wing ball to hit the long rail short of the pocket.

By the same token, the one is easier to make in the side pocket now.
 
tucson9ball

tucson9ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Neil said:
I have the same problem on my table. On mine, I have marked exactly where the rack goes so it is in the same place every time. Wing ball used to go all the time. Now, it never goes. Hits the long rail same place every time.

Here's my take on it- racking in the exact same spot every time will eventually cause divots under the balls. In time, those divots actually get deeper. I believe this changes how the rack comes apart.

With newer cloth, shallower or no divots means the back of the rack will start to spread just a hair before the wing ball moves. This causes the correct carom angle for the the wing ball to be made.

Once the divots get deeper, the back of the rack needs more force applied to it to come out of the divots. This causes a slight hesitation on the back of the rack moving, and the wing ball actually starts moving before the back of the rack moves. That causes the wing ball to hit the long rail short of the pocket.

By the same token, the one is easier to make in the side pocket now.
Click to expand...

Good info and very good explanation, Thanks Neil.
I will keep this in mind when playing on older cloth....
 
A

AngryTurtle

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
tucson9ball said:
I check the spot from the diamonds on the table using my cue as a straight edge.
Click to expand...

I believe that the right way to place the spot is to measure the distance. Dont assume the diamonds are right. I know on my home table that the two methods, measurement and diamonds give two different spot locations, off by 3/8 to 1/2 inch or so.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
AngryTurtle said:
I believe that the right way to place the spot is to measure the distance. Dont assume the diamonds are right. I know on my home table that the two methods, measurement and diamonds give two different spot locations, off by 3/8 to 1/2 inch or so.
Click to expand...
If the diamonds are not in the right places dividing the distances between the noses of the cushions into 4 and 8 equal parts, then the table is busted. Or maybe the cushions were replaced badly.

I once saw a carom table with 8 diamonds down each side rail. (There are usually either 7 or 9 diamonds on a carom long rail.) That made the corner-five system a little complicated.

In any case, if the spot is forward or back a half-inch it should only make a half-inch difference in where the wing ball hits on the long rail, assuming there is no crater action to complicate things.
 
A

AngryTurtle

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree, this is a small difference, probably about at the acceptable tolerance level, but I thought it might be worth pointing out an assumption thats not always true.

I my case I discovered this when marking my table, I found an offical marking guide somewhere that was particular about measuring distance, not using the diamonds to mark. My table is a diamondized GC4, and this is all i have found to complain about, its flawless else-wise, (other than I seem to miss those small pockets fairly often!). In my case the short rail is slightly offset, at least on the spot end, yielding a spot that slightly offset to the side, rather than fore and aft.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top