Being a strong player

justnum

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
Stronger players give less turns to the opponent at the table.

Its a requirement if you plan to win a handicap match giving up tons of weight.

It makes winning more challenging, but how does it help the player receiving the weight?

It can turn lifelong billiard hall buddies in to lifelong dependents on playing the lower ranked handicap.

Should there be a progression system to prevent people from staying in lower ranks?
 
D

DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
justnum said:
Stronger players give less turns to the opponent at the table.

Its a requirement if you plan to win a handicap match giving up tons of weight.

It makes winning more challenging, but how does it help the player receiving the weight?

It can turn lifelong billiard hall buddies in to lifelong dependents on playing the lower ranked handicap.

Should there be a progression system to prevent people from staying in lower ranks?
Click to expand...

Like a "no pool player left behind" policy? Your on the right track. A run out player doesn't have to worry about a spot given to somebody that can't get out. For the player getting the weight? It might help, but it also might be an illusion. At some point the player should know which is which.
 
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ShortBusRuss

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
justnum said:
Stronger players give less turns to the opponent at the table.

Its a requirement if you plan to win a handicap match giving up tons of weight.

It makes winning more challenging, but how does it help the player receiving the weight?

It can turn lifelong billiard hall buddies in to lifelong dependents on playing the lower ranked handicap.

Should there be a progression system to prevent people from staying in lower ranks?
Click to expand...

A progression system..... Towards WHAT? There's absolutely no money in pool, so unless you are middle class, with parents who'll buy you a Diamond 9 footer, or your parents own a pool hall, then you have absolutely no means of improving enough for it to be in any way worth one's time. I mean, literally.. With the time one would need to dedicate to pool to become moderately proficient, in this day and age, you could 3-4 languages to a decent standard, and make WAY more money translating documents.

Young, aggressive males naturally gravitate towards competing at whatever other young, aggressive males are competing at. The solution to a massive decline in popularity is not try try to institute some arbitrary "rule system" on pocket billiards progression, in a market where nobody is interested in the game... The solution is an increase in popularity. And then let nature take it's course. Pretty much the only ray of light on THAT horizon is Barry Hearns.

What nobody is talking about on that front is that Barry is diversifying because snooker is falling in popularity in Europe, and he needs to pick up other properties cheap, to squeeze a profit out of. I mean... He MIGHT actually turn around pool, but snooker is failing in Europe in much the same way. Attendance falling, viewership falling....
 
S

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ShortBusRuss said:
What nobody is talking about on that front is that Barry is diversifying because snooker is falling in popularity in Europe, and he needs to pick up other properties cheap, to squeeze a profit out of. I mean... He MIGHT actually turn around pool, but snooker is failing in Europe in much the same way. Attendance falling, viewership falling....
Click to expand...

true in britain, the traditional market. i don't know about europe in general, the impression is that it's growing in most countries, especially central/eastern europe. barry setting up major snooker events in germany and latvia has been a success. but the shift from the british isles will continue
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
justnum said:
Stronger players give less turns to the opponent at the table.

Its a requirement if you plan to win a handicap match giving up tons of weight.

It makes winning more challenging, but how does it help the player receiving the weight?

It can turn lifelong billiard hall buddies in to lifelong dependents on playing the lower ranked handicap.

Should there be a progression system to prevent people from staying in lower ranks?
Click to expand...

^^^^^^^^^^ ........... FOODSTAMPS for pool........^^^^^^^^^^^

Then again, I consider pretty much all handicapping systems foodstamps-for-pool.

Or, like someone above mentioned, "no pool player left behind"...

Lol, hows that stuff working?

Where do I sign up?

Jeff
 
CGM

CGM

It'd be a lot cooler if you did.
Silver Member
jrctherake said:
^^^^^^^^^^ ........... FOODSTAMPS for pool........^^^^^^^^^^^

Then again, I consider pretty much all handicapping systems foodstamps-for-pool.

Or, like someone above mentioned, "no pool player left behind"...

Lol, hows that stuff working?

Where do I sign up?

Jeff
Click to expand...

As someone that has been playing in a handicapped league for 4 years now and has just recently begun to play against real run out players in a non-handicapped setting, I can confirm that playing handicapped does absolutely nothing to improve your game. Getting your teeth kicked in because you let a good player back on the table is the only thing that will help you truly improve. I'll get tired of racking eventually.
 
justnum

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
Being a strong player on a private table is not the same as a strong player in a loud and wild billiard hall.

A progression away from players complaining about: spotting people, giving up too much weight, not getting enough weight,...

There was an incident on AZ a while back with sflenein. Something about ratings, and tour directors not agreeing, then deciding on a disqualification.

Pro pool is grinding, amateur pool isn't as popular as it was, but leagues are doing what they can to keep people interested.



ShortBusRuss said:
A progression system..... Towards WHAT? There's absolutely no money in pool, so unless you are middle class, with parents who'll buy you a Diamond 9 footer, or your parents own a pool hall, then you have absolutely no means of improving enough for it to be in any way worth one's time. I mean, literally.. With the time one would need to dedicate to pool to become moderately proficient, in this day and age, you could 3-4 languages to a decent standard, and make WAY more money translating documents.

Young, aggressive males naturally gravitate towards competing at whatever other young, aggressive males are competing at. The solution to a massive decline in popularity is not try try to institute some arbitrary "rule system" on pocket billiards progression, in a market where nobody is interested in the game... The solution is an increase in popularity. And then let nature take it's course. Pretty much the only ray of light on THAT horizon is Barry Hearns.

What nobody is talking about on that front is that Barry is diversifying because snooker is falling in popularity in Europe, and he needs to pick up other properties cheap, to squeeze a profit out of. I mean... He MIGHT actually turn around pool, but snooker is failing in Europe in much the same way. Attendance falling, viewership falling....
Click to expand...
 
G

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
justnum said:
Stronger players give less turns to the opponent at the table.

Its a requirement if you plan to win a handicap match giving up tons of weight.

It makes winning more challenging, but how does it help the player receiving the weight?

It can turn lifelong billiard hall buddies in to lifelong dependents on playing the lower ranked handicap.

Should there be a progression system to prevent people from staying in lower ranks?
Click to expand...
I know players who've made a career of staying in the lower ranks. Its called matchin' up right. Of course i'm sure if snookertheory reads this he'll quickly accuse those players of being scam artists. ;) Seriously, it really depends on if you want to get better or just get the cash. I've known a few who had the talent to get better but stayed at a lower speed purely as a financial move. I often call one of them a "nut hunter" but he does get the money on a fairly regular basis. He gets some spots he really doesn't need but hey, that's gamblin.
 
Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Numb

justnum said:
Stronger players give less turns to the opponent at the table.

Its a requirement if you plan to win a handicap match giving up tons of weight.

It makes winning more challenging, but how does it help the player receiving the weight?

It can turn lifelong billiard hall buddies in to lifelong dependents on playing the lower ranked handicap.

Should there be a progression system to prevent people from staying in lower ranks?
Click to expand...

Justnum :scratchhead:....After I read the above....your AZ name and this post, are spot on.

An your last question.... :shrug:
 
jokrswylde

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CGM said:
As someone that has been playing in a handicapped league for 4 years now and has just recently begun to play against real run out players in a non-handicapped setting, I can confirm that playing handicapped does absolutely nothing to improve your game. Getting your teeth kicked in because you let a good player back on the table is the only thing that will help you truly improve. I'll get tired of racking eventually.
Click to expand...

So why can't you play against real run out players in a handicap league? The SL-7 on my team rarely has a game that takes over 2 innings (assuming you count defensive shots). I love playing with him. Just to see the patterns he chooses, when he shoots defense vs. being offensive, etc.

I fail to see how playing in a handicapped league prevents you from getting your teeth kicked in because you let a good player back to the table...unless of course you are better than everyone you have been playing. :thumbup:
 
strmanglr scott

strmanglr scott

All about Focus
Silver Member
I never looked at the handicap as a way to improve a players game. How would that work? Am I misinterpreting the question?

A lower player doesn't score as bad but a loss is a loss. All the handicap does is feed you a few scraps so your handicap doesn't get destroyed when playing a much better player. However, that better player gets beat by the worse player, his handicap does get destroyed.
 
CGM

CGM

It'd be a lot cooler if you did.
Silver Member
jokrswylde said:
So why can't you play against real run out players in a handicap league? The SL-7 on my team rarely has a game that takes over 2 innings (assuming you count defensive shots). I love playing with him. Just to see the patterns he chooses, when he shoots defense vs. being offensive, etc.

I fail to see how playing in a handicapped league prevents you from getting your teeth kicked in because you let a good player back to the table...unless of course you are better than everyone you have been playing. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

This is true, I have definitely had my @$$ handed to me many a time in a handicapped league, however, the chances of running into a true run out player in the league I am in is slim to none. Sure there are guys and gals that can get out but I'm talking about playing people that DO get out, every time, from everywhere. I just started playing against guys like that and it is a completely different world. I'm not bashing league, I love it but "great" players are few and far between.
 
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