There has been a serious breach of the contract against the WPA

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
ABRadio would have covered this story. Has anyone else?

https://wpapool.com/cbsa-contract-with-wpa-cancelled/

The WPA wishes to advise that it has cancelled the sanctioning contract between itself and the Chinese Billiards & Snooker Association (CBSA) for the event known as the Chinese Pool World Championship that was announced in Beijing on the 16th January 2019 by CBSA, to be played in March this year.
There has been a serious breach of the contract against the WPA, and therefore the WPA had no alternative but to cancel the agreement. The WPA sincerely regrets this, because the event can no longer be considered as an official world championship.
Any event that is billed as an international or world championship and is not sanctioned by the world governing body of that sport cannot be considered as anything “official”, and therefore meaningless. If this was not the case, we would be seeing “world championships” played every week.
Players are also affected and is not fair to those that are being sought to participate, as they would be entering in the belief that if they won, they would become a world champion. Sadly this will not be the case.
A meeting between CBSA and WPA to try and resolve the situation was arranged for the 21st January, but just a few days prior, the meeting was cancelled by CBSA.
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I remember discussing this early last year when the news broke.

Did something new happen?


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Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
??? Why would the Chinese Pool World Championship need to be sanctioned by the WPA? Does the WPA actually think it has some kind of authority over Chinese Pool?
 

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
sources on the internet say its to control which players participate in events

rbil.png

https://www.reddit.com/r/billiards/...ssociation_wpa_statement_on_chinese/?sort=top


Jasmin Ouschan was once penalized by the WPBA for participating in non sanctioned 14.1 event in America.

pool players can only compete in sanctioned championship events

what if promoters just change the name to annual events? There are already too many champions.
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Complete and utter bollox. WPA has no problem with Melling, Shaw, Appleton and Boyes playing non-Blackball rules English pool, or with Melling, Deuel and Pagalayan playing snooker. These are high profile cases but there will be many others. Why the problem with Chinese pool?
 

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
Complete and utter bollox. WPA has no problem with Melling, Shaw, Appleton and Boyes playing non-Blackball rules English pool, or with Melling, Deuel and Pagalayan playing snooker. These are high profile cases but there will be many others. Why the problem with Chinese pool?

I have concerns the WPA has been anti Charlie Williams

or even anti-non WPA promoters.

this forum would destroy Charlie Williams, daily

koreandragon helped a wide group of players get paid and dragon promotions has been sold off.

compared to TAR, Dragon Promotions helped build a new pathway for pool players.


Does the WPA think all pool pros are losers like in a certain film? The Hustler comes to mind.
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It’s all seems fairly straight forward to me. If pool wants to be in the Olympic Games or at least stay eligible for the World Games, it needs to have a worldwide governing body. The WPA is that, born out of that intention and mostly supported by the industry internationally.

Of course tournaments happen all over. Some of them sanction with WPA and some don’t. In an official capacity, you must be sanctioned and authorized to hold a world championship. You can be unsanctioned and hold an international event. Players can participate. You just can’t call it a world championship. You can’t say you’re crowning a world champion. If you try to do that, WPA push back against it. They will release silly press junkets and threaten consequences within WPA events for players that participate in it. And the player can assess if being part of the WPA organization is important to them or not and choose accordingly.

I’m sure there are nuances to it that I’m not aware of but I don’t think it’s much more complicated than that. Each of us has a choice too. We either stand behind pool as an internationally organized sport, or we stand behind it as an internationally disorganized sport. The deciding line is where you stand with the WPA.


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justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
I’m sure there are nuances to it that I’m not aware of but I don’t think it’s much more complicated than that. Each of us has a choice to. We either stand behind pool as an internationally organized sport, or we stand behind it as an internationally disorganized sport. The deciding line is where you stand with the WPA.


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If its just silly words for people to read and talk about, let the pros stand with the organization and impact that way.

Leave the crumbs for the bugs.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Curious....

Which world governing body sanctions the USA to call the MLB championship the "World Series"...?
 

goettlicher

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
??? Why would the Chinese Pool World Championship need to be sanctioned by the WPA? Does the WPA actually think it has some kind of authority over Chinese Pool?

YES! If you want to call your event a "World Championship" the WPA must sanction it.

randyg
 

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
Curious....

Which world governing body sanctions the USA to call the MLB championship the "World Series"...?

where were you about 14 years ago

that comment made my month for the forum
 

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
YES! If you want to call your event a "World Championship" the WPA must sanction it.

randyg

Pay for the name, you make sense 100%.

However why is the need to call it a Championship better than an Open or Annual?
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pay for the name, you make sense 100%.



However why is the need to call it a Championship better than an Open or Annual?


A (world or regional) championship should determine a (world or regional) champion. To say you are accomplishing that task, you should be putting on more than “just a tournament”. You should be tracking ranking points based off sanctioned events and inviting top ranked performers to the event. You should also be holding qualifier events and inviting top performers from those events to the main event.

If you look at everything WPA does in the overall ecosystem of activity leading up to the WPA Players Championship, it makes sense it is called a championship. You contrast that with the US Open, the US International Open, the Derby City Classic, the Turning Stone Classic, the Kremlin Cup, the China Open, etc. You can see why those don’t have the name Championship in them.


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justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
Thanks for posting, your info is amazing.

ok that makes sense about the name,

then why does banning players for participating make sense?

A (world or regional) championship should determine a (world or regional) champion. To say you are accomplishing that task, you should be putting on more than “just a tournament”. You should be tracking ranking points based off sanctioned events and inviting top ranked performers to the event. You should also be holding qualifier events and inviting top performers from those events to the main event.

If you look at everything WPA does in the overall ecosystem of activity leading up to the WPA Players Championship, it makes sense it is called a championship. You contrast that with the US Open, the US International Open, the Derby City Classic, the Turning Stone Classic, the Kremlin Cup, the China Open, etc. You can see why those don’t have the name Championship in them.


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justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
LOL.

It was not political.

It was pointing out that there is no rhyme or reason to the entire world pool scene.

ok the next discussion is on banning players from participating in events that are not sanctioned.

Your loosely put together conspiracy about no rhyme or reason is fitting. But not addressed in the language pool players have contracts or player status tied too.

Does the WPA provide good terms of agreement for all billiard, snooker, and carom games in their ability to participate in un sanctioned events?

Or is the WPA the authority list, if they dont approve, you cant play? Charlie Williams is the most experienced and he used to post. Archer and Morris would be next, but they dont post.

but he has since sold his promotion company, he has instagram
 
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azhousepro

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I've gone back three times now to reread the WPA release. Where does it say that player's can't play in the CBSA event? It just says that the event is not a World Championship.

One thing to keep in mind is that while a World Championship and $5 will buy you a cup of coffee in the States, a World Championship means something to the European and Asian governing bodies. I don't know if they still give bonus money to their players that win a World Championship, but it has happened in the past. Having won a World Championship is a much bigger honor over there than it is over here.

The issue with Dragon Promotions was that there is an "added money" threshold that must be met for an event to be sanctioned as a World Championship. Dragon was not reaching that threshold, but was sanctioned by the WPA because there really weren't any other 14.1 events that could possibly be called a World Championship. Dragon then attempted to lower their added money for later events and the WPA finally put their foot down. Like Matt said, you can't have a World Championship with small added money, no qualifiers and no oversight by any governing body.

It was said for a while that the Dragon event was thought of as a World Championship by some players, since it was still the biggest 14.1 event of the year. I have said in the podcast though, that the American 14.1 Championship should be considered the World Championship based on that logic now.

As a side note on the players thinking of the 14.1 event as a World Championship. A couple of those events were won by Thorsten and he was interviewed for a European podcast a couple of years ago where the host referred to those events as World Championships. Thorsten quickly corrected him and said they were not World Championships.

In retrospect, we have American players who are introduced at major events as having won the World All Around Championship. There is no World All Around Championship.
 
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