Sky Woodward - Record "24" ?

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Man , I wish I was recording. I stopped the cueball one diamond from the rail. No side, just a plain ball hit. Now I’m trying it with check side/inside english, and a little swerve to see how far I can push it.

Damn you! For two reasons: I’m now obsessed with seeing how short I can stop it, and playing at absolute dead weight has mad me realise my table has a slight roll off on this particular angle. And I just had the damn thing leveled!

Yep, 1 to 1.25 diamonds from end rail is possible. I know, as you do now.

When i first posted in this thread, i thought that was the spot shot he was shooting.

I was thinking damn, that is freaking amazing to make that many in a row and not hit a rail.

I originally said 1.5 diamonds cause i was sitting in ER waiting for test results and threw numbers out from memory when in fact it was 14 inches from rail, but that was one shot out of many, many, many attempts.

Its as your seeing not as hard as some think to stay 8 to 10 inch3from rail and even further if conditions are right.

Like you, i got hooked on that drill. I spent hiurs and hours doing it. I don't regret it but, i do wish i had saved it on video cause i would be able to just "post it" and then get back to 14.1 instead of taking what little energy and time I have right now to do it...that wouldn't be a wise decision on my part.

Again, good shooting and congrats on learning your touch ajd table even better!

Jeff
 

Bob Jewett

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Staff member
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Yep, 1 to 1.25 diamonds from end rail is possible. I know, as you do now. ...
Just so everyone is clear on what's happening, here's the shot but Jeff says it's possible to stop the cue ball even a few inches sooner than shown.

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jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just so everyone is clear on what's happening, here's the shot but Jeff says it's possible to stop the cue ball even a few inches sooner than shown.

View attachment 523317

Yes sir, thats exactly what Jeff is saying.

You either forgot or chose to leave out critical information though:

cb and ob weight is of most importance.

Also, another factor that can effect outcome is a crater at spot area.

There's a table i play on ever so often that has a small hole where 1 ball sets and IMO, its a lot easier on that table. Im not sure but, i think the cb is slowed down more because it has to "force" the ob up-and-out of the crater.

Thoughts?
 

Shuddy

Diamond Dave’s babysitter
Silver Member
Yes sir, thats exactly what Jeff is saying.

You either forgot or chose to leave out critical information though:

cb and ob weight is of most importance.

Also, another factor that can effect outcome is a crater at spot area.

There's a table i play on ever so often that has a small hole where 1 ball sets and IMO, its a lot easier on that table. Im not sure but, i think the cb is slowed down more because it has to "force" the ob up-and-out of the crater.

Thoughts?

The absolute best I can do on a near brand new cloth with aramith tournament pro balls is just past the first diamond. So you don’t even need mismatched CB OB for the 1 diamond.

Bob, the roll I noticed on my table playing this shot is as follows: playing the CB from the right side of the table, the CB rolls slightly to the right. When I’m playing this shot at absolute dead weight, I need to aim a little thicker. However, this shouldn’t make the shot easier. If the table was rolling back toward the headstring, the CB would roll off to the left on this shot. And I’m talking a very slight roll off on this particular angle.
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The absolute best I can do on a near brand new cloth with aramith tournament pro balls is just past the first diamond. So you don’t even need mismatched CB OB for the 1 diamond.

Bob, the roll I noticed on my table playing this shot is as follows: playing the CB from the right side of the table, the CB rolls slightly to the right. When I’m playing this shot at absolute dead weight, I need to aim a little thicker. However, this shouldn’t make the shot easier. If the table was rolling back toward the headstring, the CB would roll off to the left on this shot. And I’m talking a very slight roll off on this particular angle.

That is what im remembering. When i do decide to practice that, im for sure gonna have the camera going.

Its a lot of work for such a shot.
 

markjames

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I tried this for an hour, maybe 100? times last night.
First make was a ball and one finger width from the short rail.
Second best was the cb was touching the rail.

Tonight i made it first try
 

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Shuddy

Diamond Dave’s babysitter
Silver Member
I have a feeling that thinner/older cloth will make the shot harder, particularly if it’s pulled really tight. I could be totally wrong about that. I haven’t had the chance to try it on a table other than my own, which has 2 week old cloth.
 

Shuddy

Diamond Dave’s babysitter
Silver Member
I think something funny happened.

Here’s a few shots at it. The last shot is 23cm from the top lip of the bottom rail to the center of the CB, and you can see it wasn’t dead weight, and it wasn’t the thick part of the pocket. I suspect you’re going to call shenanigans. I can’t do anymore than post the video, and I’m the only one posting videos of the shot. If it was dead weight and the thick of the pocket it would have stopped on, possible before the first diamond.

https://youtu.be/2sInTis233k
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nice. And I am digging the carpet.i went for black with colored flecks. I like yours better.

Table is a gc4? I have same, but yours looks way newer.
Got mine from pool room that closed...

23 cm is a far cry from the 30.5 that was claimed by the rake.

And to hear that manipulation of ball combinations' weights is done...kind of a sly move.

I have always had accuracy issues when shooting softly. This drill is hard for me :shrug::embarrassed2:

I guess one could probably use a leaf blower and get cb above the headstring, too...yuh know?

Here’s a few shots at it. The last shot is 23cm from the top lip of the bottom rail to the center of the CB, and you can see it wasn’t dead weight, and it wasn’t the thick part of the pocket. I suspect you’re going to call shenanigans. I can’t do anymore than post the video, and I’m the only one posting videos of the shot. If it was dead weight and the thick of the pocket it would have stopped on, possible before the first diamond.

https://youtu.be/2sInTis233k
 

Shuddy

Diamond Dave’s babysitter
Silver Member
Nice. And I am digging the carpet.i went for black with colored flecks. I like yours better.

Table is a gc4? I have same, but yours looks way newer.
Got mine from pool room that closed...

23 cm is a far cry from the 30.5 that was claimed by the rake.

And to hear that manipulation of ball combinations' weights is done...kind of a sly move.

I have always had accuracy issues when shooting softly. This drill is hard for me :shrug::embarrassed2:

I guess one could probably use a leaf blower and get cb above the headstring, too...yuh know?

23cm is way higher than I thought possible.

I live in a 3rd floor rental. I put down carpet tiles to protect the floors and deaden the sound a little.

I'm in south korea. The table is actually a Min table (Korean company).
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is so little profit in shenanigans in this matter I do not suspect them.:D

Now I have to go and try it myself.

Bob, i didn't realize the cb to OB weight difference made a difference in outcome of shot until you brought it up earlier.

How i confirmed what you said was: i called the person that was playing with me at the time and ask him to weigh the cb i gave him. It was the cb I was using at the time. It was an old cb that i got from a closing room.

He told me that particular cb weighs 5.71 oz. The ob I was using at the time was 5.96 oz and had newer cloth. The ob still weighs 5.96 but, the cloth is a lot more worn but, its still in what I would consider good shape.

I cant wait till i get a little more time. Its my luck, I usually have ALLLL the time in the world but, for a little while now I've had to choose between my table time and family priorities and I'm pretty sure you know which one won.

Another week or so :dance:, and I should be able to spend a little time on such things. Right now, I'm doing good to get to play a short race to 100 or even 50 at times in 14.1 and I'm not about to spend that time shooting the spot shot instead of taking advantage of playing a really strong player that i dont get to play often.

BTW Bob:

You never answered my question about a crater at the spot causing the cb to slow down.

To keep you from having to look at previous post: I remember shooting that shot at a local room where the table had a pretty good size hole under ob ball when on spot (both ends of table was that way) and I recall the cb stopping much sooner on that table.

I have no idea what the ob/cb weighed. All i know is they were old. The cloth was older also.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
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... You never answered my question about a crater at the spot causing the cb to slow down. ...
I don't think a crater will have much effect on the speeds of the balls. I think it will slow down the object ball if anything.
 

Shuddy

Diamond Dave’s babysitter
Silver Member
I don't think a crater will have much effect on the speeds of the balls. I think it will slow down the object ball if anything.

A divot could cause a kick (think US lingo is skid?) which absolutely kills the pace of the cue ball. It also straightens up the object ball. As someone who spent most of their years playing snooker, I’m pretty sensitive to hearing/seeing a kick. Maybe pool players are just as sensitive to them as snooker players? In my experience, pool players are not quite as sensitive to playing conditions. To put it another way, snooker players are much more likely to be prima donnas. :D
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A divot could cause a kick (think US lingo is skid?) which absolutely kills the pace of the cue ball. It also straightens up the object ball. As someone who spent most of their years playing snooker, I’m pretty sensitive to hearing/seeing a kick. Maybe pool players are just as sensitive to them as snooker players? In my experience, pool players are not quite as sensitive to playing conditions. To put it another way, snooker players are much more likely to be prima donnas. :D

I have a pretty decent sized divot on my spot and I have never seen a skid from the angle shot from behind headstring...and I play about half 1p/ half rotation on the table and to be honest, I scratch a lot.
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A divot could cause a kick (think US lingo is skid?) which absolutely kills the pace of the cue ball. It also straightens up the object ball. As someone who spent most of their years playing snooker, I’m pretty sensitive to hearing/seeing a kick. Maybe pool players are just as sensitive to them as snooker players? In my experience, pool players are not quite as sensitive to playing conditions. To put it another way, snooker players are much more likely to be prima donnas. :D

Bob is more knowledgeable than i and i will as always take what he says as good but, ever now and then, i have a mind of my own.

I agree about snooker players being more sensitive to conditions because they have to be since the table is much bigger, pockets much smaller that leads to having to be more accurate with shots as well as shape.

Most of the time, snooker players play shape to inches like good 14.1 players do. Most pool players play shape to an area which is not a good thing which is what leads to getting out of line.

I wanted to know what Bob thought about the spot with a crater (thanks for input Bob) but, I will try it out myself and see cause I remember it making a difference but, my memory sucks so, I'll see in time.

Good post sir,

Jeff
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
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Silver Member
... Now I have to go and try it myself.
I tried it myself. Instead of shooting, I used a ramp coming from the correct place in the kitchen.

The best I ever did was to stop the cue ball even with first diamonds from the foot rail, so the cue ball traveled just a little farther than one diamond after contacting the ball on the foot spot. I had a whole bunch of results where the cue ball ended half a ball closer to the foot rail than that. The main problem was to get the speed right so the object ball only barely went over the brink of the pocket.*

I was using nearly new balls (the new Aramith broken-circle design) and the cloth was medium-speed on a 4.5x9 GC2.

I also tried it with a cue stick and my main problem was shooting softly enough. My experience doesn't let me shoot at a speed that might leave the OB stopped on the brink. I did get one result just inside the first diamond so the cue ball ended 10" from the foot rail.

( *Actually the main problem was the stability of the ramp. There was some randomness in the direction of launch.)
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I tried it myself. Instead of shooting, I used a ramp coming from the correct place in the kitchen.

The best I ever did was to stop the cue ball even with first diamonds from the foot rail, so the cue ball traveled just a little farther than one diamond after contacting the ball on the foot spot. I had a whole bunch of results where the cue ball ended half a ball closer to the foot rail than that. The main problem was to get the speed right so the object ball only barely went over the brink of the pocket.*

I was using nearly new balls (the new Aramith broken-circle design) and the cloth was medium-speed on a 4.5x9 GC2.

I also tried it with a cue stick and my main problem was shooting softly enough. My experience doesn't let me shoot at a speed that might leave the OB stopped on the brink. I did get one result just inside the first diamond so the cue ball ended 10" from the foot rail.

( *Actually the main problem was the stability of the ramp. There was some randomness in the direction of launch.)

It sounds like you put a lot of time in the drill.

As you said, its really, really hard to shoot at true pocket speed on that shot.

I don't know how many times you attempted the shot before you were able to stop around the first diamond but, going from memory, Im pretty sure it took me several hours of constant setup-shoot, setup-shoot until I got just plain tired of doing it. Also, did you have any help? I would most definitely have to have someone to catch the balls, roll cb to me and spot the ob, otherwise I would tire out after a very short time.

BTW, when you can remember it, shoot that shot on different tables while on the road. Its weird how some tables and their conditions enable us to do stuff that we cant do on other tables with different conditions.

Ive got a couple friends that have tables and when playing at one of their tables, I do good to not hit the end rail, much less stop earlier but, on my table it was relatively easy to just not hit a rail but really, really hard to stop around the diamond. When playing on the other friends table, I cant stop the cb at all. It hits the rail and comes off an inch or so.

The first friends table is a 9' GC V. The second friends table is a 10' Brunswick.

I just never thought not having that "one" shot on video would cause me regret. Hmm, and to think of the countless hours of ghost play, drills I saved but, oh no, i had to delete that "one shot" out of thousands and thousands that I kept.

Oh well,

We'll see what the future holds.
 

Shuddy

Diamond Dave’s babysitter
Silver Member
Well, Bob replicated what I was able to do, which was a hell of a lot farther from the rail than I thought possible. I did get one parallel to the diamond but wasn’t recording. I was able to shoot it fairly consistently, but a ramp is a neat idea. Did you make it yourself Bob?
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, Bob replicated what I was able to do, which was a hell of a lot farther from the rail than I thought possible. I did get one parallel to the diamond but wasn’t recording. I was able to shoot it fairly consistently, but a ramp is a neat idea. Did you make it yourself Bob?

Some shots are different from table to table and from room to room....lol....not to mention from player to player.

Im glad you actually post a vid. I was starting to think I was imagining doing it...lol.

Naw, I new I had done it. The diamond and a half was a guess until I got to looking at my notebook I use at times to keep track of drills to be entered into my programs for comparison purposes later.

Have a great day sir,

Jeff
 
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