Joints

Ched

"Hey ... I'm back"!
Silver Member
I'm looking to have a cocobolo SP made, and I'm seeing 3 different joints that are common. I've emailed a few folks, but I'm not really getting much input Thought I'd try here at AZB, and see what you folks have to say. Normally I'd post to the main forum - but thought I'd try here first.

4 different styles or types of joints, and I was wondering the pros and cons of each:

1 - wood to wood, no collars

2 - Shaft and butt both have collars. (I'm guessing phenolic?)

3 - Juma joint (collars on shaft and butt).

4 - Implex joint.

I'm also interested in input on flat vs. piloted and how that affects things.

Is there one particular style that you recommend? I'm curious about the difference in hit, feedback, etc.
 
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qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
Joint type shouldn't matter, so long as it's done well. Collars act as reinforcement to prevent the wood from cracking as the cue flexes, so I'd never say they are a bad idea. That said, some folks prefer the traditional look of sneaky and don't want collars. There's a risk of the wood cracking at some point, but IMO it's not high enough to dictate that collars are necessary. They more act as insurance.
 

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
A SP (sneaky-pete) has no joint collars.
If it had, it wouldn't be very sneaky now would it?
I believe what you're referring to is a 4pt, full-splice with bling.
Don't confine yourself to calling it a sneaky when it's not.

Joint collars are a matter of preference and will affect the 'hit'.
They also add a greater level of protection against splitting the shaft or handle.
However, they are visible so everyone will know that you're not playing with a house-cue.
Isn't that the intent of a SP, to fool people? The first thing is to stop calling it what it's not.

So let's talk collars.
Wood to wood is the most natural hit you can experience, especially in a full-splice.
Anything softer than wood is useless and will detract from the hit.
Anything harder than wood will stiffen the hit.
The alternative to a collar on the shaft is to reinforce the jnt. from within.
Predator has been doing this for yrs on a pie-spliced shaft. If anything's going to split, they would.
But they don't, not from normal, abuse-free play. A 2" long phenolic plug gives the wood
something to bond to other than 1" long shiny brass insert. Shiny doesn't grab epoxy very well.
Your handle doesn't need a collar unless you like the look. Pilots are obsolete as in 'not needed'.
 

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
When you were born, did your parents name you, "KJ"? No. They gave you a name yet for whatever reason you answer to, "KJ". Everybody knows what, "KJ" means, even though it's not the technical description of the object. Same with sneakies. It's what the vast majority calls a full splice, no veneer cue. Whether technically correct or not, it's what they're called & everybody knows what it means.
 

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When you were born, did your parents name you, "KJ"? No. They gave you a name yet for whatever reason you answer to, "KJ". Everybody knows what, "KJ" means, even though it's not the technical description of the object. Same with sneakies. It's what the vast majority calls a full splice, no veneer cue. Whether technically correct or not, it's what they're called & everybody knows what it means.

.......lmao.... Thank you
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I had an uncle named JB. Just plain JB. But a lot of people called him Junior because his daddy was also JB. And yes we knew him both ways. We also knew who my cousins were talking about when they called him daddy. I also had a cabinet maker named HB. If you got a lathe from me in the last ten years he probably built your cabinet.

With all that clarified I still dislike the name Sneaky Pete and prefer Full Splice Cue. The days of trying to cheat or hustle should be put in the past with pool and move forward with it being the prestigious game and industry it deserves.

Now moving on the questions. I will only build them with rings. Implex, juma or phenolic are all fine for the rings. The joint pin is personal preference. I much prefer the flat faced joint.

I have a Coco Bolo full splice ready to go with 3/8-10 pin and slightly over 13mm shaft. The shaft can be taken down. It has matching stitch rings in joint and butt plate.
PM or call me if interested.
 
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JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
The best joints come from Jamaica. That's what I've been told.

Ok, phenolic is probably the most popular joint collar material.
Reason being is, they are durable and look quite nice ( the good ones anyway ).
 

Ched

"Hey ... I'm back"!
Silver Member
The best joints come from Jamaica. That's what I've been told.

...

I'm told that things have changed since my day (70s), and that the cost has gone sky-high too. :)

Oppps on the "SP" - was just too lazy to spell out the description. I should have known better, especially in a technical area of AZB. I'll be more careful the next time.

Thank you all for some great input - it's much appreciated.
 
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Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Although it strictly speaking isn`t a sneaky pete, I highly recomend a thin shaft collar. I have seen more than a few collarless shafts split.
A black ring is the most common, but brown phenolic might be more discrete?
You could do like KJ suggest and do a phenolic insert instead, but that would take away from the wood to wood feel if you go for a big pin design.
Not sure if I agree with KJ about piloted shafts/cues being obselete, tell that to Uni-Loc corp :)
If done right it`s very rare those 7/16-20 brass inserts comes loose.
I don`t know how KJ does his brass inserts, but the combinaton of a precise hole, crisp threads and the glue relief rings in the insert works fine for me. I also clean the brass insert with denatured alcohol just be sure there`s no grease or dirt on the insert. I use West system G5
 

Sheldon

dontneednostinkintitle
Silver Member
Another option is to put a collar on the shaft only. When this type of cue fails, it is almost always the shaft at the joint end splitting. A collar is cheap insurance, and phenolic is quite strong.
 
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