Do you imagine Pool in School?

Title IX Requires Adding Many Female Scholarships

Chicagoplayer said:

In China, Pool/Billiards is part of the school curriculum.

"These championships were played at the Shanghai Huimin Middle School for the second time having been played there last year as well. The winner of the U/19 Division, Long Ze Huang is a student at this school, and joins his school mate Kong De Jing who was successful in winning the U17 world title last year. Quite extraordinary that the same school can produce two world champions in consecutive years."

From the AZB article:

http://www.azbilliards.com/news/stories/12372-three-junior-world-champs-crowned/

If you can imagine Pool/Billiards in school- tell them what you envision!
http://xqsuperschool.org/

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This is terribly unlikely because there's a push to even not teach history in school. Only math, science and reading, writing.

However, what I believe could have a possible chance with the right leadership, is adding Women's Pool Division to NCAA sport. Several schools that have added football and many of the former FCS football programs have moved up into the FBS division. Because of Title IX, many programs must add enough female scholarships to stay even with the male sports scholarships. Adding football means +75 scholarships(iiirc). Moving up adds about 15-20 scholarships. So many schools are adding news sports. For the less competitive programs (which all of these schools are) look for sports that are less facilities up-keep type sports, keeping the monies toward money cows. Pool requires about eight to ten tables, reclothing costs and the space of the room. Cheaper than adding or upkeeping aquatic sports, lacrosse, etc. That could about 8 to 10 scholarships. A women's pool division set-up similar to the Mosconi Cup would be ideal for these programs. And could potentially turn into a fan-friendly sport. But, it would have to get to and be passed by the NCAA. I will concede that, this also is unlikely, even with the proper leadership.

BasementDweller said:

I don't know...

I'm started to question why we ever coupled sports with education in the first place. There's a day of reckoning coming within the college ranks. The amount of revenue college sports programs are generating is going to force some changes sooner or later. Big time division 1 college football is for all intents and purposes a professional sport, it just happens to be one where the players do not get paid. I see a day sometime in the future but maybe not in my lifetime, where college sports lose their affiliation with their university and we shift to more of a club model.

At the high school level, I think soccer is paving the way. In this sport playing club soccer is more important than is playing on the high school team and I think all the best teams are found within the club ranks.

So why do we need pool in school? As much as I love the game -- I'm not sending my kid to school to learn how to play it anymore than I would want them to spend time learning how to play badminton. If we want the game to grow we need to stop looking for the magic bullet and instead just take the time to teach some young kid how to play the game.

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Every student in the US pays a "Student Activities Fee." It is usually more than what alumni pay to be a part of the school sports club along with their sports tickets. The money is spent on building funds including stadiums and arenas. The fee is mandatory.

This fee is also included in all formulas for deciding how much in student loans each student can take out. Since each school strives to maximize the student loan quota, meaning the fee and loan amounts will only go up. After school, the student is saddled with the debt, whether they can afford it or not doesn't matter. Because the student loan is owed to the government. Meaning that you can't go into bankruptcy and have it forgiven. You will continue to owe the government till you die or you pay them back.

Each high school in Sioux Falls has a bowling team. Each team has a home bowling center. It's a club sport so the only thing the school does is supply shirts.

The problem that you run into is since it is a school sport there can be no alcohol sold and no cigarette or alcohol advertised. When I worked in one of the bowling centers we spent about a half hour taping up sheets and making sure every beer logo was covered.

I don't believe we have any pool halls in Sioux falls that don't serve alcohol. To be honest I don't think we even have a pool hall here anymore, they are all bars and there are only a half dozen 9 fters in town.

Here's the solution.

School kids for 5 years, till they are about 10. If you don't know math and English by then you're a thick head. Go learn the world and or a trade.

Do an apprenticeship in pool if there's a market, or make your own, or do it as a hobby.

Schooling is basically a mind numbing political stupidizing of the youth. The quicker we get them out of there the better. Let people pay for or get sponsored into real education beyond the basics when they have talent.

99% of college graduates will learn more from South Park, Simpsons, Family Guy and the odd wise ass blog than they ever will from most college courses.

Colin BSc Hons

SouthernDraw said:

Every student in the US pays a "Student Activities Fee." It is usually more than what alumni pay to be a part of the school sports club along with their sports tickets. The money is spent on building funds including stadiums and arenas. The fee is mandatory.

This fee is also included in all formulas for deciding how much in student loans each student can take out. Since each school strives to maximize the student loan quota, meaning the fee and loan amounts will only go up. After school, the student is saddled with the debt, whether they can afford it or not doesn't matter. Because the student loan is owed to the government. Meaning that you can't go into bankruptcy and have it forgiven. You will continue to owe the government till you die or you pay them back.

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And the point is.....

Colin Colenso said:

Here's the solution.

School kids for 5 years, till they are about 10. If you don't know math and English by then you're a thick head. Go learn the world and or a trade.

Do an apprenticeship in pool if there's a market, or make your own, or do it as a hobby.

Schooling is basically a mind numbing political stupidizing of the youth. The quicker we get them out of there the better. Let people pay for or get sponsored into real education beyond the basics when they have talent.

99% of college graduates will learn more from South Park, Simpsons, Family Guy and the odd wise ass blog than they ever will from most college courses.

Colin BSc Hons

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Many school systems are fairly ineffective, but I think the answer is to look to reform our approach to schooling. Essentially we are working on an old model of schooling with some small evolution. The sage on the stage style of teaching really only benefits a select few, most adapt and others get completely left behind.

I'd say you are mostly right that many students learn more outside of school than in it, but I think we need to apply those models of learning within the school system where the learner has the benefit of teacher to guide them.

The funny thing is that during my education degree we learned about all these interesting approaches and we were struck by how different it seemed school had become since we graduated from high school so long ago. Then we went into the schools for our practice teaching and realized, nothing had really changed.

Sadly these models are used primarily only in certain private schools and alternative schools for struggling/troubled students. But the right teacher does make a big difference and there are plenty out there that are setting great examples.

Just remember that if a school has a pool tournament everybody gets a trophy. No winners, no losers. And coaches can't say anything that implies a student did anything less than AWESOME (might hurt their feelings and scar them for life).

Cameron Smith said:

Sadly these models are used primarily only in certain private schools and alternative schools for struggling/troubled students. But the right teacher does make a big difference and there are plenty out there that are setting great examples.

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Sorry to completely derail the thread but the way they teach at the "alternative" school here when I was there was my preferred way and I wish all schools did it.

They gave you your work and if you had questions you asked, if you didn't you did your work on your own and handed in your packet every couple weeks or whenever you finished if you finished early. If you didn’t finish your packet you failed, if you finished you moved on to the next packet.

I did so much better in that atmosphere rather that sit and listen to a teacher talk about something I already knew how to do.

Cameron Smith said:

Many school systems are fairly ineffective, but I think the answer is to look to reform our approach to schooling. Essentially we are working on an old model of schooling with some small evolution. The sage on the stage style of teaching really only benefits a select few, most adapt and others get completely left behind.

I'd say you are mostly right that many students learn more outside of school than in it, but I think we need to apply those models of learning within the school system where the learner has the benefit of teacher to guide them.

The funny thing is that during my education degree we learned about all these interesting approaches and we were struck by how different it seemed school had become since we graduated from high school so long ago. Then we went into the schools for our practice teaching and realized, nothing had really changed.

Sadly these models are used primarily only in certain private schools and alternative schools for struggling/troubled students. But the right teacher does make a big difference and there are plenty out there that are setting great examples.

Click to expand...

I'd suggest learning the deeper history of the schooling philosophy as used in the US and most of the west, which originated in Prussia. It was designed to brainwash people mainly, and make them automatons with skills in memorization of told facts rather than abilities to solve problems.

Twice voted New York's teacher of the year has done some good research on the history of US schooling and criticizes recent developments fiercely.

https://www.johntaylorgatto.com/

Colin

Dockter said:

Sorry to completely derail the thread but the way they teach at the "alternative" school here when I was there was my preferred way and I wish all schools did it.

They gave you your work and if you had questions you asked, if you didn't you did your work on your own and handed in your packet every couple weeks or whenever you finished if you finished early. If you didn’t finish your packet you failed, if you finished you moved on to the next packet.

I did so much better in that atmosphere rather that sit and listen to a teacher talk about something I already knew how to do.

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Yup, and other places take it a step further where the student work with the teacher to determine their learning objectives and how they will demonstrate those objectives are being met. So instead of being a passive participant, they are an active participant. Of course, the teacher is there to ensure that reasonable goals are being set, so it isn't like a student can always demonstrate what they've learned by drawing picture (if ever).

I heard plenty of teachers and researchers wonder why we wait for a kid to be struggling before we try stuff that we know is more effective.

Colin said:

I'd suggest learning the deeper history of the schooling philosophy as used in the US and most of the west, which originated in Prussia. It was designed to brainwash people mainly, and make them automatons with skills in memorization of told facts rather than abilities to solve problems.

Twice voted New York's teacher of the year has done some good research on the history of US schooling and criticizes recent developments fiercely.

https://www.johntaylorgatto.com/

Colin

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Looks like interesting info. Definitely agree that it's not an effective approach to schooling. Memorization kind of misses the point of learning in my opinion.

As for the overall topic,

Ultimately Pool teaches planning, self control, discipline and team work (if a league is involved). All competitive activities I think can help boost a persons self confidence and if you include snooker into the mix you generally have to work on your arithmetic if you want to know what your high break is .

I've always thought of opening a small club. Mostly pool tables with a snooker table and a billiard table. Very small like 5-6 tables max. Would be great to do youth classes.

Chess, Bowling, and Golf all exist as youth programs, I don't see why pool can't as well. It's more mentally challenging than bowling and golf, and more physical than chess. Perfect balance if you ask me. It's also a year round game/sport.

You can go to college on a Billiards scholarship so it would be nice if they had one in schools and even had competitions.

galipeau said:

Chess, Bowling, and Golf all exist as youth programs, I don't see why pool can't as well.

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APA does have a Jr Division for youths.

I was more thinking of something where there is actual instruction and training in the fundamentals.

I would structure each class with free play, drills, and challenge matches to keep the kids interested.

philfrom said:

Universities have no business being involved with pool and other sports like this unless they are profitable, like football, baseball or basketball where the public can be charged to see the activity, Education is the purpose of an University. Their budgets are not big enough.:smile:

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What??

You don't think building that stadium and providing scholarships, tutors, etc for athletes is a drain on resources for a school? Universities should not be incubators for professional sports. Your last sentence is correct, education is the purpose of a university. If anything, that should contradict the rest of your statement. Maybe they should cut expensive sports programs that are really just incubators for pro sports? How much did that new stadium cost? If anything pool and billiards is a much more intellectual pursuit than almost any other sport... I guess I'm confused by your argument.

I've emboldened the statements in your post that to me come off as contradictory.

EDIT: Not to mention, how much cheaper are a few gold crowns than an an entire sports program?

Cameron Smith said:

Ultimately Pool teaches planning, self control, discipline and team work (if a league is involved).

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So does chess. Price of a board and pieces - $10, $300 if you want to get a nice Grandmaster set. Chess is portable. And travels well. Pool table....not so much

It was funny watching some of the pros at an event I did repairs at. Alain Martel was playing chess between his games. I asked him if that didn't disrupt his game. He said "it helps him focus".

galipeau said:

What??

You don't think building that stadium and providing scholarships, tutors, etc for athletes is a drain on resources for a school? Universities should not be incubators for professional sports. Your last sentence is correct, education is the purpose of a university. If anything, that should contradict the rest of your statement. Maybe they should cut expensive sports programs that are really just incubators for pro sports? How much did that new stadium cost? If anything pool and billiards is a much more intellectual pursuit than almost any other sport... I guess I'm confused by your argument.

I've emboldened the statements in your post that to me come off as contradictory.

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It shows how little you know about boosters and sports programs at universities. Ever noticed the big teams that recruit the big players, and spend all of that money you're talking about WEAR THE SAME SHOES? The teams are sponsored. And there are these people called Alumni. They contribute to their schools. And boosters. Trust me, the athletics program at a good Division 1 school pays its own bills, and with TV rights and tournament game monies, they're also putting money back into the school's educational programs.

Shawn Armstrong said:

So does chess. Price of a board and pieces - $10, $300 if you want to get a nice Grandmaster set. Chess is portable. And travels well. Pool table....not so much

It was funny watching some of the pros at an event I did repairs at. Alain Martel was playing chess between his games. I asked him if that didn't disrupt his game. He said "it helps him focus".

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I started playing chess recently to work on my focus actually. At the very least I'll do the puzzles and tactics trainer on Chess.com if I don't have time for an actual game.

Chess should absolutely be taught in schools as well, although it already is in some cases. I think it's beneficial to provide multiple options, be it chess, pool or something else and let the students gravitate towards whatever clicks for them.

MiscueBlues said:

Sure, but anybody who really wants to get better figures out pretty early that drinking and weed only get in the way... Some might see the guys drinking and smoking and having a good time laughing around the table and decide they want that. Others will see the shots they miss.

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At the pool hall I cut my teeth in, one of the toughest in the country - at least 90% of the top players were all open " parties " . Not advocating, just saying.

Not im my Lifetime

Chicagoplayer said:

In China, Pool/Billiards is part of the school curriculum.

"These championships were played at the Shanghai Huimin Middle School for the second time having been played there last year as well. The winner of the U/19 Division, Long Ze Huang is a student at this school, and joins his school mate Kong De Jing who was successful in winning the U17 world title last year. Quite extraordinary that the same school can produce two world champions in consecutive years."

From the AZB article:

http://www.azbilliards.com/news/stories/12372-three-junior-world-champs-crowned/

If you can imagine Pool/Billiards in school- tell them what you envision!
http://xqsuperschool.org/

Click to expand...

It's a TOUGH sell in the US....because of our past. My daughters were in two sports, and were born/raised in the same town & left for college their sr. year our name had ALLOT of credibility within our school district. I knew most every teacher/principal and they knew me and my involvement with my daughters thru BB and Soccer and the youth pool room I built. I brought in literature, trophies, my background and a plan etc. it fell on deaf ears. Pool table does not bring thoughts of anything good to most in the educational field. .