Back to the game after 30 years

genuino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
About a year ago started playing pool again when I joined APA. Reason is that I stopped playing when I came to live in the States in 1984 and having to work long hours and all kinds of jobs, never found time and of course real interest in coming back to the table. I even brought my first I ever bought with me. still have, Mali green label, which I sold but bought it back, he wasn't sure about pool playing.
One of the things that made me loose interest was the type of games played here. Never played 9 ball before, the occasional 8 ball but 90% of the times was 15 ball rotation, philipino style, where everything is called including the use of rails or cushions and no more than 2 defense shots per rack. Always force to shoot towards the OB by rule, intentional fouls were out of the question and ball in hand was always behind the line. Took me a little bit to get used to BIH anywhere on the table, is like giving a ball away for no reason, saw it then and still see it sometimes not fare, it doesn't promote better playing at all, found that many rules here in the US is just because someone complaint about something and everybody wants everything easy when your opponent misses or fouls. This not a negative comment, just want to understand the reasoning.
I'm getting used to it already, but it took me a little bit.
Another fact of the 9 ball games is, shots are not called, not even the 9 ball, with the exception of TAP, never understood that, too many slop shots account for championships winnings, at the same time it works both ways. Wish I can find a 10 ball league where I live, nothing near Kennesaw, GA. One of the reasons I like American Rotation started by Joe Tucker.
Right now I'm playing APA on Sundays, 6 in 9 ball and just got bumped to 7 in 8, progress since I started as a 4 in both, went down to 3 for a bit, but found the right cue and my game is coming back, have ways to go back my usual, winning about 70% of the tournaments and championships I entered when living in the Dominican Republic, raised there but born in Rome, Italy.
Sorry for the long post, but want to hear what you experienced guys have to say.

Whatever happened to the 15 ball rotation games?
 

u12armresl

One Pocket back cutter
Silver Member
Winning 70% of the tournaments and championships you enter in the DR?

K

About a year ago started playing pool again when I joined APA. Reason is that I stopped playing when I came to live in the States in 1984 and having to work long hours and all kinds of jobs, never found time and of course real interest in coming back to the table. I even brought my first I ever bought with me. still have, Mali green label, which I sold but bought it back, he wasn't sure about pool playing.
One of the things that made me loose interest was the type of games played here. Never played 9 ball before, the occasional 8 ball but 90% of the times was 15 ball rotation, philipino style, where everything is called including the use of rails or cushions and no more than 2 defense shots per rack. Always force to shoot towards the OB by rule, intentional fouls were out of the question and ball in hand was always behind the line. Took me a little bit to get used to BIH anywhere on the table, is like giving a ball away for no reason, saw it then and still see it sometimes not fare, it doesn't promote better playing at all, found that many rules here in the US is just because someone complaint about something and everybody wants everything easy when your opponent misses or fouls. This not a negative comment, just want to understand the reasoning.
I'm getting used to it already, but it took me a little bit.
Another fact of the 9 ball games is, shots are not called, not even the 9 ball, with the exception of TAP, never understood that, too many slop shots account for championships winnings, at the same time it works both ways. Wish I can find a 10 ball league where I live, nothing near Kennesaw, GA. One of the reasons I like American Rotation started by Joe Tucker.
Right now I'm playing APA on Sundays, 6 in 9 ball and just got bumped to 7 in 8, progress since I started as a 4 in both, went down to 3 for a bit, but found the right cue and my game is coming back, have ways to go back my usual, winning about 70% of the tournaments and championships I entered when living in the Dominican Republic, raised there but born in Rome, Italy.
Sorry for the long post, but want to hear what you experienced guys have to say.

Whatever happened to the 15 ball rotation games?
 

genuino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
u12, why is that hard to believe? Once again, ball in hand anywhere in the table doesn't exist, always behind the line, no slop shots, everything is called, different game, very strict, unless you play it like that you wouldn't understand that the best player wins, and not because a less capable player gets ball in hand anywhere on the table on the 8 ball and wins. But you don't have to believe it, all I was asking is for opinions on those rules. Shoot well!
 

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
u12, why is that hard to believe? Once again, ball in hand anywhere in the table doesn't exist, always behind the line, no slop shots, everything is called, different game, very strict, unless you play it like that you wouldn't understand that the best player wins, and not because a less capable player gets ball in hand anywhere on the table on the 8 ball and wins. But you don't have to believe it, all I was asking is for opinions on those rules. Shoot well!

but a much better player wouldn't be giving up ball in hand often

ball in hand is ball in hand, anywhere in bca rules, from what I was told where we play 8ball bac weekly tourneys

and the term no slopes, boy o boy
you sound EXACTLY like a no slopes ball behind the head string 8ball only ,dont play a SINGLE OTHER GAME,
player ive described ad nosium here, who is a terrible player
a jerk, and who has all these crazy concepts of how pool should be played with no base fundamentals what so ever
im not saying that's how you are, but pretty much all ive met who play that way are
and apparently others have run into others that are exactly the same
and now it appears its a international phenomenon
 
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ZeroSkylineX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
1) No more than 2 safety shots per rack?
Are you kidding me? I defend how many times I please, a huge component about billiards is about strategical thinking.

2) Behind the line after foul/scratch?

I never understood this rule and I can explain exactly why this is stupid. You're shooting the 8 ball and it's behind the head string. Your opponent scratches and it's your turn to put the CB behind the line. Are you kidding me? I'm supposed to bank to get my 8 ball in for my opponent's foul? Ball in hand was implemented because a foul requires a penalty, just like any other sport. In what penalty does the opposing player benefit from the foul if shot behind the line? Makes absolutely no sense and I've noticed the majority of the people who shoot BTL are amateur bar box players. Ball in hand makes perfect sense and gives both players a chance to rethink their strategy and benefit from the opposing player's foul.

3) Yes, 9 ball does not require call shot and all flukes count. Some people like it, some people don't. I personally enjoy 9 ball because it's exciting and it's a different kind of game. After all, the more varieties to the element of this game, the better.
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
1) No more than 2 safety shots per rack?
Are you kidding me? I defend how many times I please, a huge component about billiards is about strategical thinking.

2) Behind the line after foul/scratch?

I never understood this rule and I can explain exactly why this is stupid. You're shooting the 8 ball and it's behind the head string. Your opponent scratches and it's your turn to put the CB behind the line. Are you kidding me? I'm supposed to bank to get my 8 ball in for my opponent's foul? Ball in hand was implemented because a foul requires a penalty, just like any other sport. In what penalty does the opposing player benefit from the foul if shot behind the line? Makes absolutely no sense and I've noticed the majority of the people who shoot BTL are amateur bar box players. Ball in hand makes perfect sense and gives both players a chance to rethink their strategy and benefit from the opposing player's foul.

3) Yes, 9 ball does not require call shot and all flukes count. Some people like it, some people don't. I personally enjoy 9 ball because it's exciting and it's a different kind of game. After all, the more varieties to the element of this game, the better.

A ball behind the line on a foul was always spotted. Todays players have trouble with spot shots, years ago, spot shots were a staple to be learned.
 

Ak Guy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Welcome back

I took almost a 40 year break from pool and a friend got me started again about 4 years ago. Since then I acquired some nice Pat Diviney cues and a good 9' table. I really enjoy the game and understand it much better then I did as a teen, The long straight in shots are harder then when I was younger, but my cue ball control is much better.

The BCA 8 Ball rules were new to me as was the ball in hand and safety shooting aspect of the game. Our lone pool hall closed down a few years ago and the local bars have poorly kept bar box tables and the only 8 Ball league uses home brewed rules.

My hick town is strictly an 8 Ball town except for a few 9 Ball players. I long for decent tables and competition from other players and would willingly play any billiard game if the opportunity was there. My top choice would be a 10 Ball league, which will never happen around here. Maybe any billiard game on any table is better then nothing.

With my skills and age I accept my limitations, but I also know to improve all I have to do is put in the table time.
 

philly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was away from the game for over 40 years also and got back in about a year and a half ago. Bit hard as ever. Yes a lot of changes. Not as much 14.1 being played. Table cloth is much smoother. Changes in push rules in 9 ball. I am very lucky to have 3 REAL poolrooms in a 40 minute radius from me. It's like heaven.
 

genuino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
but a much better player wouldn't be giving up ball in hand often

ball in hand is ball in hand, anywhere in bca rules, from what I was told where we play 8ball bac weekly tourneys

and the term no slopes, boy o boy
you sound EXACTLY like a no slopes ball behind the head string 8ball only ,dont play a SINGLE OTHER GAME,
player ive described ad nosium here, who is a terrible player
a jerk, and who has all these crazy concepts of how pool should be played with no base fundamentals what so ever
im not saying that's how you are, but pretty much all ive met who play that way are
and apparently others have run into others that are exactly the same
and now it appears its a international phenomenon

Well, I bet there are a few posts on this matter, but don't quite understand your response, is not about how should be played, since I'm new to 9 ball, trying to understand the reasoning to BIH anywhere on the table is giving a ball away for no reason, I know is a penalty if you will, but to me that does not promote better playing nor make better players. Picture this scenario, 8 and 9 left on the table, Joe makes 1 thru 7 and scratches after making the 8 and scratch, Bill takes ball in hand and place it 5 inches away from the 9 and makes it, that makes Bill a winner, not a better player. Rules are rules and I will play by them, love the game.
 

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
Joe should have taken better care of the cue ball. Perhaps he's not as good as you had thought.
With 2 balls on the table he got so far out of line that he had to take a flyer on the 8 and lost control of the white?
I would submit that Joe likely "shit in" at least a couple of balls and in this instance Bill is the better player
 
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genuino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
1) No more than 2 safety shots per rack?
Are you kidding me? I defend how many times I please, a huge component about billiards is about strategical thinking.

2) Behind the line after foul/scratch?

I never understood this rule and I can explain exactly why this is stupid. You're shooting the 8 ball and it's behind the head string. Your opponent scratches and it's your turn to put the CB behind the line. Are you kidding me? I'm supposed to bank to get my 8 ball in for my opponent's foul? Ball in hand was implemented because a foul requires a penalty, just like any other sport. In what penalty does the opposing player benefit from the foul if shot behind the line? Makes absolutely no sense and I've noticed the majority of the people who shoot BTL are amateur bar box players. Ball in hand makes perfect sense and gives both players a chance to rethink their strategy and benefit from the opposing player's foul.

3) Yes, 9 ball does not require call shot and all flukes count. Some people like it, some people don't. I personally enjoy 9 ball because it's exciting and it's a different kind of game. After all, the more varieties to the element of this game, the better.

Zero,

1. The reason behind that is, if you see the whole ball, you need to shoot it, (by rules then), also, the players need to show their shooting skills to win, anyone can play safe. Safety is useful in extreme conditions, as you say, strategic move after all other options are discounted, there is a limit on the easy way out.

2. Yes, as someone answered correctly, it gets spotted to avoid players doing it on purpose. Like any other sport? Well, football, they kick from 12 yards away, not the two yard line :), in essence, comparable situation, from a fare distance in pool, behind the kitchen line, not an inch away. Philosophically speaking, benefiting from somebody's mistake is the wrong reason to rise. Once again, my very own personal opinion, not trying to imply anything by it.

3. 9 ball is exiting of course, a fast game, guess I don't get how is played, again, new game to me. Flukes should count towards the opponents score if you ask me. I see this as I see intentional fouls, should be taken out of the game, but that's me, what do I know.

Shoot well!
 

genuino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Joe should have taken better care of the cue ball. Perhaps he's not as you as you had thought.
With 2 balls on the table he got so far out of line that he had to take a flyer on the 8 and lost control of the white?
I would submit that Joe likely "shit in" at least a couple of balls and in this instance bill is the better player

Good point, but nobody is perfect, one, and I repeat, "ONE" mistake on the white should not be cause of loosing a match, in that case, do you actually see Bill as a better player? By the way, Bill missed three easy shots before Joe made 1-7.
 

ZeroSkylineX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Zero,

1. The reason behind that is, if you see the whole ball, you need to shoot it, (by rules then), also, the players need to show their shooting skills to win, anyone can play safe. Safety is useful in extreme conditions, as you say, strategic move after all other options are discounted, there is a limit on the easy way out.

2. Yes, as someone answered correctly, it gets spotted to avoid players doing it on purpose. Like any other sport? Well, football, they kick from 12 yards away, not the two yard line :), in essence, comparable situation, from a fare distance in pool, behind the kitchen line, not an inch away. Philosophically speaking, benefiting from somebody's mistake is the wrong reason to rise. Once again, my very own personal opinion, not trying to imply anything by it.

3. 9 ball is exiting of course, a fast game, guess I don't get how is played, again, new game to me. Flukes should count towards the opponents score if you ask me. I see this as I see intentional fouls, should be taken out of the game, but that's me, what do I know.

Shoot well!
I'd have to disagree. Safety shots are just as hard to make as potting the ball. If anything, I'd have to say playing safe requires more skill. That's why in snooker, points are given for playing successful safeties and penalty points are given to the opponent.

Look at this amazing safety play by Ding Junhui. The precision positioning is phenomenal.

https://youtu.be/v83xW-0z9pc
 

Toncam

Another Bum !
Silver Member
I'd have to disagree. Safety shots are just as hard to make as potting the ball. If anything, I'd have to say playing safe requires more skill. That's why in snooker, points are given for playing successful safeties and penalty points are given to the opponent.

Look at this amazing safety play by Ding Junhui. The precision positioning is phenomenal.

https://youtu.be/v83xW-0z9pc

Wow !! I never played Snooker but this guy was like a surgeon, really great.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, I bet there are a few posts on this matter, but don't quite understand your response, is not about how should be played, since I'm new to 9 ball, trying to understand the reasoning to BIH anywhere on the table is giving a ball away for no reason, I know is a penalty if you will, but to me that does not promote better playing nor make better players. Picture this scenario, 8 and 9 left on the table, Joe makes 1 thru 7 and scratches after making the 8 and scratch, Bill takes ball in hand and place it 5 inches away from the 9 and makes it, that makes Bill a winner, not a better player. Rules are rules and I will play by them, love the game.

That's why you don't scratch if you are the better player. Why should the other player be penalized by the other guy scratching if the ball is against the short rail on other side of the table? It would make scratching a good thing not a negative since you can easily leave the other guy in a worse position he would be in if you just missed. Let's say you have the cueball on one side of the table, your object ball is buried in between two other balls 8 feet away. You don't have a good shot. So you just tap the cueball and hand the ball to the other guy who now has to be behind the line, you handed your issue to the opponent by a FOUL. Not very fair is it? And calling every time a ball touches a rail is just silly. Called shot is fine, ball and pocket, calling how many times the ball touches the facing or rails on way is just silliness made up by people who heard the rules from someone that heard the rules from their uncle who heard it from his brother who played pool 3 times in his life.
 

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
youll find ball in hand rule in almost any pocket game I bet,
I haven't checked to see nor do I play all the games, only straight and 8 ball
but I know 9 and 8 ball have that rule in bca
probably the same in 10 ball and so on
 

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
That's why you don't scratch if you are the better player. Why should the other player be penalized by the other guy scratching if the ball is against the short rail on other side of the table? It would make scratching a good thing not a negative since you can easily leave the other guy in a worse position he would be in if you just missed. Let's say you have the cueball on one side of the table, your object ball is buried in between two other balls 8 feet away. You don't have a good shot. So you just tap the cueball and hand the ball to the other guy who now has to be behind the line, you handed your issue to the opponent by a FOUL. Not very fair is it? And calling every time a ball touches a rail is just silly. Called shot is fine, ball and pocket, calling how many times the ball touches the facing or rails on way is just silliness made up by people who heard the rules from someone that heard the rules from their uncle who heard it from his brother who played pool 3 times in his life.


I agree with all of this
 

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
Good point, but nobody is perfect, one, and I repeat, "ONE" mistake on the white should not be cause of loosing a match, in that case, do you actually see Bill as a better player? By the way, Bill missed three easy shots before Joe made 1-7.

You're right - one mistake on the white shouldn't be the cause of losing a match, but it frequently is.
One of my pet peeves is people that say things like, "I gave that one away..." or something similar. In fact, no one gives anything away. The fact is that what ever the outcome, effort was put into a match (or game) to win it and the loser made a mistake that the winner didn't make or was able to take advantage of. On this occasion the winner was the better player.
Have you ever thought you lost when you were the better player? The thing is if you were the better player you would have won, if you should have won, you would have. Maybe it's safe, and fair to say that you lost to a player with an inferior history, but on this occasion, they made fewer mistakes than you and took advantage of the mistakes you made, even if it is just to take ball in hand on the 9, on this day they were the better player. To say you gave it away, or even though you lost you are the better player is to show a lack of respect to your opponent and to the game and makes you a whiner. "I gave it away?", just an excuse for inferior play.
 

genuino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd have to disagree. Safety shots are just as hard to make as potting the ball. If anything, I'd have to say playing safe requires more skill. That's why in snooker, points are given for playing successful safeties and penalty points are given to the opponent.

Look at this amazing safety play by Ding Junhui. The precision positioning is phenomenal.

https://youtu.be/v83xW-0z9pc

That was phenomenal! Keeping in mind the size and speed (quite fast) of the table. Well, agree on the skill level for those, perhaps I'm not used to "safe" your way all night long. I have played for little money in the past, .....on 9 ball? Hell no :).

Thanks guys, I'm learning the game, don't kill me. By the way, got bumped to a 7 during the qualifiers city cup this past weekend, we made it!
 
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