Another controversy with Mike Dechaine. This is beyond imagination...

HelloBaby-

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
From Denis Grabe FB:

That's sick!!!!!!! 7-4 im leading and dechaine tells the rack was over the cushion and the white ball touched the rack after hitting?!? The ref comes and says i did not see but the audience can decide, what u think if 95% of the audience is american what they said of course a foul, if theres no ref how can 70year old guys with glasses who dont even know rules call a foul on me ?!?!? Dechaine cant win honestly only cheating!!!!
Then he comes to 7-7 i go to 10-7 and he misses combo 7-9 leaves me hooked and that was the last shot i got.

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Edited... new evidence showed up.

Still unsportsmanship for me, but probably not cheating.
 
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From Denis Grabe FB:

That's sick!!!!!!! 7-4 im leading and dechaine tells the rack was over the cushion and the white ball touched the rack after hitting?!? The ref comes and says i did not see but the audience can decide, what u think if 95% of the audience is american what they said of course a foul, if theres no ref how can 70year old guys with glasses who dont even know rules call a foul on me ?!?!? Dechaine cant win honestly only cheating!!!!
Then he comes to 7-7 i go to 10-7 and he misses combo 7-9 leaves me hooked and that was the last shot i got.

If this is what happened, I want to tell the Ref and Mike Dechaine to go F themselves. I hope they sleep well at night.

Where did you see the ref said the audience could decide ???
What an organization this year, shame on them all.

Who was the ref who made the call? Was it the new tournament director, Scott?
 

ChicagoJoe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think it's funny that Albin Ouschan calls all Americans except for Shane a bunch of cheaters and says no european would ever do that.
 

HelloBaby-

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Who was the ref who made the call? Was it the new tournament director, Scott?

What different does it make? He was the Ref. He made that call meaning either that's how they (the organization) roll or the organizers hired an incompetent guy who thought this is his weekly tournament. In any case, that's on the organisers and shame on them all.
I am sorry but I really can't believe people can be that cheap, karma is real and they will get what they deserve.
 
What different does it make? He was the Ref. He made that call meaning either that's how they (the organization) roll or the organizers hired an incompetent guy who thought this is his weekly tournament. In any case, that's on the organisers and shame on them all.
I am sorry but I really can't believe people can be that cheap, karma is real and they will get what they deserve.

IT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE!! Do your best to find out who made the call.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... Where did you see the ref said the audience could decide ??? ...

Under WPA Regulations:

"If a dispute arises between two players in an unrefereed match, and the area referee is asked to make a decision without having seen the cause of the dispute, he should be careful to understand the situation as completely as possible. This might include asking trusted witnesses, reviewing video tapes, or reenacting the shot."

The ref would decide after gathering whatever information he can.
 

HelloBaby-

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Under WPA Regulations:

"If a dispute arises between two players in an unrefereed match, and the area referee is asked to make a decision without having seen the cause of the dispute, he should be careful to understand the situation as completely as possible. This might include asking trusted witnesses, reviewing video tapes, or reenacting the shot."

The ref would decide after gathering whatever information he can.
The Ref said "the audience" means he addressed the audience in general = random people. That's "trusted witnesses" ??? Come on give me a break.
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That was a Boyes move from Dechaine. And Grabe implied that it was a lie and the American audience was in on it, which is an even more serious accusation. If someone in the audience saw it and confirmed it, that's different, but still doesn't excuse Dechaine from the APA league type call.
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
Someone posted on facebook that the ref asked the crowd, and that three people in the front row all said it hit the rack, one of them British.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
From Denis Grabe FB:

That's sick!!!!!!! 7-4 im leading and dechaine tells the rack was over the cushion and the white ball touched the rack after hitting?!? The ref comes and says i did not see but the audience can decide, what u think if 95% of the audience is american what they said of course a foul, if theres no ref how can 70year old guys with glasses who dont even know rules call a foul on me ?!?!? Dechaine cant win honestly only cheating!!!!
Then he comes to 7-7 i go to 10-7 and he misses combo 7-9 leaves me hooked and that was the last shot i got.

If this is what happened, I want to tell the Ref and Mike Dechaine to go F themselves. I hope they sleep well at night.

Where did you see the ref said the audience could decide ???
What an organization this year, shame on them all.

I NEVER ask the audience or anyone in it to decide anything! I agree with Denis that's the wrong way to handle something like this. There are other ways to make a ruling like this and it begins with talking to each player separately. Sometimes a warning is in order. A good official must be able to use good judgement in the interest of fair play.

P.S. the rack is paper thin and just touching the edge of it would not alter the path of a ball. JUDGEMENT!
 
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PhilosopherKing

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The Ref said "the audience" means he addressed the audience in general = random people. That's "trusted witnesses" ??? Come on give me a break.
If Grabe had called the foul on himself like a normal human being, neither the ref nor the audience would have been involved.
 

f210

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Don't they have cameras rolling so they can review the tape? It is just so silly and crazy to ask the audience who of course would tend to side with the American.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
I was front row for this match and the cue ball did hit the magic rack which was leaning over the front rail. I saw it and a few other fans vouched for it having happened. Grabe denied it, but he was in the wrong here.

The referee, not present for the shot, explicitly under the rules as written, has the right to solicit input from spectators in this situation. Bob Jewett, often cited as the single greatest authority on the rules, looked up the rule and confirmed this. Bob himself made this ruling, in collabotion with head referee Karl Kantowitz.

Personally, I don't care for the rule that says that this is foul, and Mike did not call the foul. All he did was request a ruling, and this is how it was adjudicated.

My opinion is that Grabe should have called a foul on himself here.

If the entire story is to be told here, Grabe made some extremely inappropriate remarks suggesting that had input been solicited from European onlookers, they might have backed him up, ane that Mike was getting a hometown call. He openly questioned the integrity of both the referees and the fans and Karl Kanrtowitz gave him a sportsmanship warning which was, in my opinion, well deserved. It didn't sink in, though, as Grabe found it fitting to talk to Mike while Mike was shooting in the subsequent rack. Mike took exception, but did so with civility and good sportsmanship, and Grabe kept quiet for the remainder of the match.

Mike conducted himsel impeccably, and only the worst Dechaine haters would've Been inclined to find fault with him here.

Let the truth be know.

Incidentally, Dechaine won this match by breaking and running the last three racks, which is to say went out and got it.

Grabe is a wonderful player who was unlucky here, but he also got way out of line and ought to apologize to Mike.
 
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jburkm002

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was watching a stream and it appeared the rack was a good inch over the rail. I was Suprised they left it like that. Was waiting for someone to hit it. Just to see if a foul would be called. Never hit the rack. Different game than this one.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

HelloBaby-

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was front row for this match and the cue ball did hit the magic rack which was leaning over the front rail. I saw it and a few other fans vouched for it having happened. Grabe denied it, but he was in the wrong here.

The referee, not present for the shot, is explicitly under the rules as written, has the right to solicit input from spectators in this situation. Bob Jewett, often cited as the single greatest authority on the rules, looked up the rule and confirmed this. Bob himself made this ruling, in collabotion with head referee Karl Kantowitz.

Personally, I don't care for the rule that says that this is foul, and Mike did not call the foul. All he did was request a ruling, and this is how it was adjudicated.
My opinion is that Grabe should have called a foul on himself here.

If the entire story is to be told here, Grabe made some extremely inappropriate remarks suggesting that had input been solicited from European onlookers, they might have backed him up, ane that Mike was getting a hometown call. He openly questioned the integrity of both the referees and the fans and Karl Kanrtowitz gave him a sportsmanship warning which was, in my opinion, well deserved. It didn't sink in, though, as Grabe found it fitting to talk to Mike while Mike was shooting in the subsequent rack. Mike took exception, but did so with civility and good sportsmanship, and Grabe kept quiet for the remainder of the match.

Mike conducted himsel impeccably, and only the worst Dechaine haters would've inclined to find fault with him here.

Let the truth be know.

Incidentally, Dechaine won this match by breaking and running the last three racks, which is to say went out and got it.

Grabe is a wonderful player who was unlucky here, but he also got way out of line and ought to apologize to Mike.

Thanks for the infos,
I believe in your words then what come after my line "if this is what happened,..." is not applied.
 

TCo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not say he did or did not but how do you call a foul on yourself if you believe you didn't foul?

Also, when in question with the match not being actively refereed, wouldn't a decision be made in FAVOR of the shooter?
 
I was front row for this match and the cue ball did hit the magic rack which was leaning over the front rail. I saw it and a few other fans vouched for it having happened. Grabe denied it, but he was in the wrong here.

The referee, not present for the shot, explicitly under the rules as written, has the right to solicit input from spectators in this situation. Bob Jewett, often cited as the single greatest authority on the rules, looked up the rule and confirmed this. Bob himself made this ruling, in collabotion with head referee Karl Kantowitz.

Personally, I don't care for the rule that says that this is foul, and Mike did not call the foul. All he did was request a ruling, and this is how it was adjudicated.

My opinion is that Grabe should have called a foul on himself here.

If the entire story is to be told here, Grabe made some extremely inappropriate remarks suggesting that had input been solicited from European onlookers, they might have backed him up, ane that Mike was getting a hometown call. He openly questioned the integrity of both the referees and the fans and Karl Kanrtowitz gave him a sportsmanship warning which was, in my opinion, well deserved. It didn't sink in, though, as Grabe found it fitting to talk to Mike while Mike was shooting in the subsequent rack. Mike took exception, but did so with civility and good sportsmanship, and Grabe kept quiet for the remainder of the match.

Mike conducted himsel impeccably, and only the worst Dechaine haters would've Been inclined to find fault with him here.

Let the truth be know.

Incidentally, Dechaine won this match by breaking and running the last three racks, which is to say went out and got it.

Grabe is a wonderful player who was unlucky here, but he also got way out of line and ought to apologize to Mike.

Thank you for the clarity.
 
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