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05-26-2020, 06:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedvmaker View Post
I find it very hard to argue with a player of your skill and knowledge of the game, but I still can't see that shot being possible with outside english, or any english other then inside english.

I am going to try this shot a few times, using inside, outside, and center (on the cue ball) when I get a chance.

That shot looks so difficult, and I can only see myself having any chance at making it, using Inside english.

Would love to see a video of you (or anyone) making that shot, using outside english. I just do not see it happening.
Any individual making any shot depends completely on that individual's skill level.

The shot can be made with any english. truth.


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05-26-2020, 06:22 AM

If Jayson would answer the comments we could at least find out how he hit it!Haha
He did reply to a comment about his shoes though. Go figure.


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  (#18)
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05-26-2020, 02:03 PM

Deleted............................

Last edited by animatedvmaker; 05-26-2020 at 07:33 PM.
  
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05-26-2020, 02:14 PM

As a few others posted, above center no spin.
  
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05-26-2020, 06:58 PM

I spent just under an hour shooting this shot over and over with different English. Donít worry, I missed more than I made it. But I put together a video compiling my key takeaways. I had an initial vision of making it some kind of Rollie Williams style cut but then decided I didnít want to put that degree of production into it and slapped it together quickly.

https://youtu.be/gHzKTLaRNrU


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  (#21)
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05-26-2020, 07:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattPoland View Post
I spent just under an hour shooting this shot over and over with different English. Donít worry, I missed more than I made it. But I put together a video compiling my key takeaways. I had an initial vision of making it some kind of Rollie Williams style cut but then decided I didnít want to put that degree of production into it and slapped it together quickly.

https://youtu.be/gHzKTLaRNrU


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Yeah, your 1st attempt is the exact reason why I believed that shot was not possible using outside english. Because I believed that the outside english would not be able to put enough juice on the object ball, to get it all the way down the rail, past the side pocket, in order to make it. I thought that using outside english on that shot was just not possible.

Pretty amazing that you made that shot using outside english. How much outside did you use on that shot though? Just curious.

I will stop making assumptions now, about shots that I do not really know.

My assumptions were based on seeing a really strong player making that same shot over and over again, but he was using extreme inside english on it.
  
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05-26-2020, 07:26 PM

100% correct.

Good call BB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
Any individual making any shot depends completely on that individual's skill level.

The shot can be made with any english. truth.
  
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  (#23)
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05-26-2020, 07:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedvmaker View Post
Yeah, your 1st attempt is the exact reason why I believed that shot was not possible using outside english. Because I believed that the outside english would not be able to put enough juice on the object ball, to get it all the way down the rail, past the side pocket, in order to make it. I thought that using outside english on that shot was just not possible.



Pretty amazing that you made that shot using outside english. How much outside did you use on that shot though? Just curious.



I will stop making assumptions now, about shots that I do not really know.



My assumptions were based on seeing a really strong player making that same shot over and over again, but he was using extreme inside english on it.

My outside attempts were actually my highest make percentage. I was using about a full tip. Sometimes a tad more.

My inside English make percentage was very low. I might have just been hitting it fat over and over thinking the CB would deflect more. I was shocked that I couldnít just pocket it using the old rail-first spin into it technique. I think being that close to the ball meant the cueball was jumping into the rail and ruining my chances at it. If I could have hit center-inside or had a longer path to the object ball (like on a 9í table) I think it would have been easier.

My top-center attempts looked the most like Jaysonís with the cueball coming straight across the table or at most half a diamond up. I did have a few makes where the cueball went up table by a full diamond or more. I think I had a touch of inside on all of those attempts.


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05-26-2020, 07:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattPoland View Post
I spent just under an hour shooting this shot over and over with different English. ... https://youtu.be/gHzKTLaRNrU
...
Good shooting and thanks for the video.

I think your shot is actually harder than Jayson's. Look where his cue crosses the diamonds. Also, I believe his object ball is entirely below the last diamond.


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  (#25)
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05-26-2020, 07:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattPoland View Post
My outside attempts were actually my highest make percentage. I was using about a full tip. Sometimes a tad more.

My inside English make percentage was very low. I might have just been hitting it fat over and over thinking the CB would deflect more. I was shocked that I couldnít just pocket it using the old rail-first spin into it technique. I think being that close to the ball meant the cueball was jumping into the rail and ruining my chances at it. If I could have hit center-inside or had a longer path to the object ball (like on a 9í table) I think it would have been easier.

My top-center attempts looked the most like Jaysonís with the cueball coming straight across the table or at most half a diamond up. I did have a few makes where the cueball went up table by a full diamond or more. I think I had a touch of inside on all of those attempts.


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Yeah, I assumed that type of shot required the cue ball to hit the rail 1st, with inside, and that would be the only way to get enough speed on the object ball, and have it stick to the rail also.

Still really amazed you made that shot using outside english. Again, I assumed that with outside, the object ball with die on impact, and barely go any distance at all.
  
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05-26-2020, 07:51 PM

Low inside when the ball is frozen - rail first.
  
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05-26-2020, 07:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
Good shooting and thanks for the video.

I think your shot is actually harder than Jayson's. Look where his cue crosses the diamonds. Also, I believe his object ball is entirely below the last diamond.
I need to go to pool school, to learn how english affects the object ball, because now I believe that I am completely clueless, lol.
  
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05-26-2020, 07:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedvmaker View Post
I need to go to pool school, to learn how english affects the object ball, because now I believe that I am completely clueless, lol.
There's lots of info on Dr. Dave's site.


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  (#29)
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05-26-2020, 07:57 PM

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Originally Posted by alstl View Post
Low inside when the ball is frozen - rail first.
Or not, depending on what you want to do with the cue ball. Evidently Jayson felt plain follow was the best for him -- I'm sure he didn't take any liberties with the final shot of a perfect, very difficult drill.


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05-26-2020, 09:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedvmaker View Post
Yeah, I assumed that type of shot required the cue ball to hit the rail 1st, with inside, and that would be the only way to get enough speed on the object ball, and have it stick to the rail also.



Still really amazed you made that shot using outside english. Again, I assumed that with outside, the object ball with die on impact, and barely go any distance at all.

I think it comes down to cut angle.

A straight in shot visually overlaps the CB and OB 100% with a lot of energy transfer to the OB. The opposite would be a 90 degree cut where the edge of the CB and edge of the OB barely rub. On those shots the ball barely dribbles without being spun off the rail like you mentioned.

This shot is more like a 75-80 degree cut. It means the balls do overlap some. That overlap gives enough energy transfer to make the ball. You can hit it too soft for sure, but a firm stroke has a chance.

The cut is too thin for the outside/inside spin to really have much effect on the object ball. It just means the CB will deflect fatter or thinner and you need to be prepared to account for that in your aim.

The other factor is how hard you hit it. The OB wants to be thrown into the rail (and bounce out) by the cut alone. It means you might need to over cut it a tiny amount. Thatís where the overlap I mentioned before gives you some play to work with.

I think thatís a mistake many people make with thin rail cut shots. The kind of default to assuming they need to shoot them edge-to-edge like a 90 degree cut when there is always going to be some overlap.


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