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Money lost but unethical Cuemaker found
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enyaw
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Money lost but unethical Cuemaker found - 10-09-2016, 08:49 AM

*Added in*
*******************
Somehow since people are not too good at catching the issue or are too lazy to read properly. I will post the main issue i have on top.

After reaching an agreement with Eddie on everything, all that is left is for him to mail the blank to Pete and we'd both we on our own ways.

However he insists that Pete emails him personally which is totally against what he wants which is to stop wasting his time. So why would he want Pete to email him when he has my reassurance that Pete would receive the blank. Sending him screen shots that Pete sent to me. If he is really intending on not wanting to waste time, he would have shipped the blank out instead of playing this game of getting Pete to mail him.

This thread only surfaced because he threatened to keep both the blank which i paid for and thus is mine and the amount to be refunded that should Pete not email him. I must add that i have asked Pete twice already.

"I have already asked you twice to have him email me directly. This is the last time I am asking this from you. You have already wasted enough of my time.
If Pete Omen himself does not email me directly confirming the deal, then I will not refund anything and you forfeit everything." -Cohen (2016)

I don't know who is trying to waste more time now.

So all of you who want to add in your two cents whether a deposit should be kept or not. Which is basically what everyone here is only good at doing, i'm sorry to inform you but the details of that was agreed upon by both me and Eddie which means it is irrelevant to this issue.

*******************

Firstly, i would like to document my experience with Eddie Cohen from California.



It first started with the idea of having using a Davis blank to make my first cue as i wanted to have some history in it.



Being relatively new to the whole idea of building a cue, a friend linked me a thread on AZB which this cue maker was advertising his work. After scrolling through a few pages and looking through other threads, i heard many good things about him about how he was really good at customer service and decided to contact him. This was just 2 years. What could have changed right.



So i on 9th June 2016, contacted him and told him that i wanted to make a cue. I told him my budget was from 1.2k to 1.4k though id prefer it to not exceed 1.2k and i was asking about simple inlays which he didnt reply at all or talk about the cost of inlays. On the 28th of June he replied regarding deposit required for the conversion and the priced of the blank which i sent via PayPal him on the 6th of July. After that nothing was heard till 24th July when i had to ask whether the blank was secured, which he said it was.



Not wanting to chase him and assuming that there was no need for any updates while the blank was being turned down, the next email i sent him was on the 6th of September which i then found out that no work has been started yet.



So Mr. Cohen took my deposit and the money for my blank and for 2 months did not have any form of communication from him. As we didn't manage to discuss inlays and designs for the cue i spent this 2 months looking online and i found that i liked propellers and veneered windows, and brought the idea to him. Not knowing what the market rate was i said i was okay with the price, however after thinking about it i figured it was too much for me and i also checked with other cue makers and realised that they better fit my budget as he charges significantly higher than other cuemakers, 3-4 times to be exact and when i inquired about them he compared his prices with Tad Kohara and Ed Prewitt to justify them. At this point in time after failing to get simple replies in a single email as to how does his cues play, the whole price including ringwork and additional things, i figured that i wasnt comfortable with working with him anymore else the figure would have ballooned beyond my initial budget.



Thus within 10 hours i told him that i had a change of mind, that it was out of budget and i feel i should work with another cue maker. Which he said that i could change the design for it to be in my budget but he was willing to ship it anyone i wanted to work with, considering that statement i believe that no work has started on it at all.

So while Mr Cohen claims that i cancelled on his for no reason it was simply that things were not clearly outlined in the beginning that his prices were more than i was willing to pay for his work. As he did not answer any questions on mill work and has no website for me to check.


This is where his unethical nature comes to light, and what i have issue the most.



He said this Deposits are non refundable.

As soon as I get paid I buy materials, therefore there are no refunds on deposits.


So i told him that since i supplied the blanks, and 2 months ago we didnt even discuss anything about inlays what materials could he possibly have bought.


Also it is as though the materials that he bought for my cue would not be used for other cues. So does he intend to refund me my deposit when the materials which i paid for that was intended for my cue are used on someone else cue. Or would he quote other customers cheaper because i paid for the materials already, else hed be getting paid twice.


Since he said he has bought the materials already, i told him that id pay for the materials he has bought and he can ship both the materials and blank to the new cue maker im interested in working with.

However he refuses allow me to buy over his materials and ship them over to my new cue maker and pulls out a new reason to keep my deposit.


Next, he changes his reasoning that he drove two hours to collect my blank from Martin of superior cues and emails with me has been over 2 hours though i've had people tell me the journey there is barely 20 minutes. Additionally, i dont see how the longest email he has sent me only consisted of 8 sentences would take more than 2 hours. Other emails were barely 10 words long if i was lucky 3 sentences.



So since i honestly had no energy to argue with him over this issue, and after all he did collect the blank, i offered to pay him 50 for collecting the blank, 25 for paypal fees and id pay for shipping.



In return he said hes refund me 125 and ship it to omen which i agreed. However, he insists on Pete Ohman emailing him that he is going to receive the blank, for god knows what reason whether it is to make life more difficult for me and Pete because in my opinion, all he has to do is mail it to Pete Ohman as the said address i gave him, refund me my 125 and enjoy his free money.



So anyway, i mailed him screenshots of my conversations with Pete as evidence and Pete even specially crafted a mail me saying that he would receive it so i took a screen shot of it and mailed it to him, and this is the response he gave me.



I have already asked you twice to have him email me directly. This is the last time I am asking this from you. You have already wasted enough of my time.

If Pete Omen himself does not email me directly confirming the deal, then I will not refund anything and you forfeit everything.

So Mr Cohen is using something that is out of my control to force me to forfeit everything when i have tried everything in my power to resolve the issue as soon as possible. I don't think that he is right to threaten me with forfeiting my blank as well because the blank was bought by me and thus my property.

Moral of the story: It's always important to start of with an ethical cue maker who does not jump at any chance to get business and one that is more than willing to answer questions regarding cost than collecting deposit and leaving you to be at his mercy.

Always think twice, some people would seem nice until you hand over the money then they show their true colours.

It is also important to ask people for opinions on cue makers instead of reading threads about how good he is.

I've heard many bad things about how he dealt behind peoples back when the cues where with him and how he kept missing deadlines.

While i'm sure there are many satisfied customers with him. But I believe it's the small things that counts.

How he handled everything makes me Glad that I'm not working with him to build my cue. Even though I lost 250 because he swallowed the deposit.

Better to lose money than to deal with an unethical person.
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Last edited by enyaw; 10-10-2016 at 12:48 PM. Reason: Added details
  
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jeffj2h
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10-09-2016, 09:06 AM

----------------

Last edited by jeffj2h; 10-10-2016 at 10:56 AM. Reason: Situation seems not as clear as originally thought.
  
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iusedtoberich
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10-09-2016, 09:10 AM

The cue maker is right, imo. From your own accounting, you have wasted his time. He should keep all of your deposit. I actually want a refund myself for the time I spent reading this.
  
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10-09-2016, 09:11 AM

You can't even trust reviews about cue makers anymore. He still has the cheek to say he will not refund anything.

The worst thing is people only hear the "good" things about cue makers and not the bad ones. And it leads to more people getting muscled by such unethical cue makers.


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10-09-2016, 09:18 AM

I read your story twice and do not understand the whole blank thing:

****************
So i on 9th June 2016, contacted him and told him that i wanted to make a blank.....

Now he changes his reasoning that he drove two hours to collect my blank from Martin of superior cues.....

So i told him that since i supplied the blanks...

So Mr. Cue maker took my deposit and the money for my blank....
*****************


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10-09-2016, 09:19 AM

Whatever the reason for being non-refundable, there is not much point in having a deposit if a customer can just ask for it back at a completely arbitrary time.
  
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10-09-2016, 09:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by iusedtoberich View Post
The cue maker is right, imo. From your own accounting, you have wasted his time. He should keep all of your deposit. I actually want a refund myself for the time I spent reading this.

He has already place a value on his time which is why he is only refunding me 125 dollars. However now he is refusing to even do that now and is deciding to both inconvenience both me and Pete ohman.

So you mr iusedtoberich is bringing an invalid point. Sure thing you can refund yourself.


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10-09-2016, 09:20 AM

I am having a hard time understanding why the guy who currently has your blank needs an email from Pete Ohman before forwarding your blank. It is your blank and you can do with it whatever you choose. Personally I would probably go visit the fella with your blank and offer to put it someplace very uncomfortable for him if he does not hand it over immediately. I cant say that I have a problem with the time frame so far if and only if the cue maker has been communicating with you the expected time frame.
  
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10-09-2016, 09:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Dave View Post
I read your story twice and do not understand the whole blank thing:



****************

So i on 9th June 2016, contacted him and told him that i wanted to make a blank.....



Now he changes his reasoning that he drove two hours to collect my blank from Martin of superior cues.....



So i told him that since i supplied the blanks...



So Mr. Cue maker took my deposit and the money for my blank....

*****************

Sorry I meant to make a cue instead of a blank. A typo. I wanted to make a cue from a John Davis blank that I bought from Martin of superior cues.


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A tale of a California CueMaker
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enyaw
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A tale of a California CueMaker - 10-09-2016, 09:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masayoshi View Post
Whatever the reason for being non-refundable, there is not much point in having a deposit if a customer can just ask for it back at a completely arbitrary time.

I would not demand a refund on the deposit should any work have been done on my blank.

It's the same idea that south west does not collect your deposit for your cue which is 12 years from now they only collect it when it's your turn. Correct me if I am wrong.


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Last edited by enyaw; 10-09-2016 at 09:27 AM.
  
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10-09-2016, 09:27 AM

I guess you aren't going to tell us who the cuemaker is, but you want people to know about cuemakers with bad reviews?!?!?
There is a simple solution- have him mail the blank to you and you send it to Pete, costs you a little more in time and money but you get your blank and 1/2 the deposit back.

Good luck.


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10-09-2016, 09:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by enyaw View Post
I would not demand a refund on the deposit should any work have been done on my blank.

It's the same idea that south west does not collect your deposit for your cue which is 12 years from now. Correct me if I am wrong.


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How is not collecting a deposit the same as collecting a deposit? A deposit is to protect the cuemaker from indecisive people like yourself who would otherwise waste his time. Unless you can refund his time, there is no good reason why he should feel compelled to refund your money. If he does refund you anything besides the blank, you should be grateful.
  
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10-09-2016, 09:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masayoshi View Post
How is not collecting a deposit the same as collecting a deposit? A deposit is to protect the cuemaker from indecisive people like yourself who would otherwise waste his time. Unless you can refund his time, there is no good reason why he should feel compelled to refund your money. If he does refund you anything besides the blank, you should be grateful.

If a cue maker requests for a deposit, it is to start work. In case of indecisive buyers, in which case the deposit is used to compensate for work done.

However he has not started work in 3 months without any updates. I have already offered him half of my deposit for his time.


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10-09-2016, 09:39 AM

I personally don't are about your story or hardship unless you:

1. Tell everyone who the cue maker is.

2. Let the cue maker tell his side of the story.

I have heard too many stories like this one and its like a broken record.

Yes cue makers can be difficult to deal with and there are some real bad ones. There are also time wasting, panty wasting customers ... who are a pain in the ass. Not saying that you are, just saying we don't know the whole story.
  
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10-09-2016, 10:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by enyaw View Post
If a cue maker requests for a deposit, it is to start work. In case of indecisive buyers, in which case the deposit is used to compensate for work done.

However he has not started work in 3 months without any updates. I have already offered him half of my deposit for his time.


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No a deposit isn't just for beginning work. It is to lock up both parties into a contract. From what it sounds like the amount of deposit was only a portion of total cost and that's what it should be. You should be due a refund only if he gave you a deadline for completion and way missed it or if you gave him a ton of money up front and then backed out. Also doesn't it take months to properly turn down things ( can only do a tiny bit at a time to avoid warpage? He probably wants that email to cover his ass because he thinks or feels you could be a pain in the ass,
  
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