stance when behind the shot
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stance when behind the shot - 02-04-2020, 05:50 PM

whats the best way??
or pros and cons of each?
some seem to advocate standing square to the the shot
ie your body perpendicular to the shot line
some players seem to stand angled along their shooting stance
behind the shot
is one way better than the other??
your opinions appreciated
This is an edit
To be clear I am talking about how you stand when you address the shot line before you step into the shot
My question has nothing to do with when you are down on the shot on the table
I apologize for any confusion to my question

Last edited by bbb; 02-05-2020 at 07:54 AM.
  
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02-04-2020, 06:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
whats the best way??
or pros and cons of each?
some seem to advocate standing square to the the shot
ie your body perpendicular to the shot line
some players seem to stand angled along their shooting stance
behind the shot
is one way better than the other??
your opinions appreciated
As long as you have your 3 areas of weight equal. Left foot, right foot and torso weight. If you addressed your shot, and before you pulled the trigger, I should be able to walk up to you and push you sideways w/o moving you body easily.

Look at Rempes stance, I'd never be able to do that, but since his body is balanced, like a tripod or a three legged chair, it's all good. Just make sure when you set your bridge hand on the play surface, it's not bearing your body weight.


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02-04-2020, 06:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
whats the best way??
or pros and cons of each?
some seem to advocate standing square to the the shot
ie your body perpendicular to the shot line
some players seem to stand angled along their shooting stance
behind the shot
is one way better than the other??
your opinions appreciated
One thing I would ask you is are you young, fit, perfect weight? The reason for my question is as you get old, maybe do a tour with military, or have a job that trashes your body.

What is perfect "stance" might not be possible. We had this guy who was a BCA Certified Teacher were I live. Most people in the community are over 50 y/o++.

It use to piss me off that he tried to get people to do things that any Olympic
Athlete could do with ease. But say the person had a knee in need of replacement, or back problems, or other physical limitations. This text box stance he expected is not possible. He was a non flexible teacher.

Then you fall back on what works best for you. Improvise, adapt, overcome. BTW I will never see 65 again, my body don't work, or bened with ease like it did at 50 years of age.


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02-05-2020, 06:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
whats the best way??
or pros and cons of each?
some seem to advocate standing square to the the shot
ie your body perpendicular to the shot line
some players seem to stand angled along their shooting stance
behind the shot
is one way better than the other??
your opinions appreciated
Pros typically stand angled, one foot forward. I very much do NOT recommend this for amateurs. I recommend standing perpendicular to the "full line" (line of ob/cb centers) first. (And you'll often see pros go perpendicular first on a challenging shot for a few moments, or faster, subtly/quickly as they consider shape or begin their shot routine.)

When I demonstrate, I hold my cue lengthwise in front of me to make a T between the full line and me. With your nose, navel, sternum, etc. perpendicular to the full line, you give yourself the best possible true look at the aim/angle before you bend to shoot, and it's easy to go perpendicular to a rail rather than the full line. (We're talking optimal eyeing of the shot, as we walk toward objects perpendicular to our body targets, no one walks to the post office or the bus stop with their head tilted and one shoulder leaning in, which puts one eye ahead of the other in space.)

The next time you watch amateurs, notice how many are in such a rush to shoot, they lean in while eyeing the shot--and here's the thing--their head and eyes are in very inconsistent positions from shot to shot. Forcing a student to start eyeing every shot perpendicular to the upcoming play is a big percentage-increaser, for most.


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02-05-2020, 07:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Drive View Post
As long as you have your 3 areas of weight equal. Left foot, right foot and torso weight. If you addressed your shot, and before you pulled the trigger, I should be able to walk up to you and push you sideways w/o moving you body easily.

Look at Rempes stance, I'd never be able to do that, but since his body is balanced, like a tripod or a three legged chair, it's all good. Just make sure when you set your bridge hand on the play surface, it's not bearing your body weight.
I'm not sure what "torso weight" is supposed to mean. I've never heard of that term before but if you mean the weight leaning against the table, then you're wrong. The goal is to be in balance at the table. Being in balance does not necessarily mean equal distribution of weight on those particular body parts.

Last edited by FranCrimi; 02-05-2020 at 07:31 AM.
  
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02-05-2020, 07:56 AM

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Originally Posted by BilliardsAbout View Post
Pros typically stand angled, one foot forward. I very much do NOT recommend this for amateurs. I recommend standing perpendicular to the "full line" (line of ob/cb centers) first. (And you'll often see pros go perpendicular first on a challenging shot for a few moments, or faster, subtly/quickly as they consider shape or begin their shot routine.)

When I demonstrate, I hold my cue lengthwise in front of me to make a T between the full line and me. With your nose, navel, sternum, etc. perpendicular to the full line, you give yourself the best possible true look at the aim/angle before you bend to shoot, and it's easy to go perpendicular to a rail rather than the full line. (We're talking optimal eyeing of the shot, as we walk toward objects perpendicular to our body targets, no one walks to the post office or the bus stop with their head tilted and one shoulder leaning in, which puts one eye ahead of the other in space.)

The next time you watch amateurs, notice how many are in such a rush to shoot, they lean in while eyeing the shot--and here's the thing--their head and eyes are in very inconsistent positions from shot to shot. Forcing a student to start eyeing every shot perpendicular to the upcoming play is a big percentage-increaser, for most.
Thanks for the reply Matt
If the pros stand angled why do you not recommend this for amateurs?
At what stage of skill is it ok to be angled?
  
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torso/upper body weight is your core weight
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torso/upper body weight is your core weight - 02-05-2020, 08:01 AM

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Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
I'm not sure what "torso weight" is supposed to mean. I've never heard of that term before ''(I created that terem years ago to help beginning students understand weight distribution"but if you mean the weight leaning against the table NO I'm not, then you're wrong. The goal is to be in balance at the table. Being in balance does not necessarily mean equal distribution of weight on those particular body parts.
Upper body/core weight, that is displaced between your legs, causing your body to not want to lean one way or the other. Your core is the third leg of your weight distribution. It cannot be too forward or too rearward, it must be centered between your feet. As you know, if you stand up straight and bend forward with out sticking your backside out, you'll fall over. It's like a teeter totter, different bodies are able to stick out their backside more that others. Being aware of your core weight is the 3rd leg.

If you look at a Karate stance, they are in perfect balance when they are set, and ready to deliver a kick. If they had their core weight too forward or rearward, they would not deliver the weight of their kick effectively.


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02-05-2020, 09:34 AM

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Originally Posted by CocoboloCowboy View Post
One thing I would ask you is are you young, fit, perfect weight? The reason for my question is as you get old, maybe do a tour with military, or have a job that trashes your body.

What is perfect "stance" might not be possible. We had this guy who was a BCA Certified Teacher were I live. Most people in the community are over 50 y/o++.

It use to piss me off that he tried to get people to do things that any Olympic
Athlete could do with ease. But say the person had a knee in need of replacement, or back problems, or other physical limitations. This text box stance he expected is not possible. He was a non flexible teacher.

Then you fall back on what works best for you. Improvise, adapt, overcome. BTW I will never see 65 again, my body don't work, or bened with ease like it did at 50 years of age.



Sorry to hear about the BCA Teacher. That's one of the reasons why there are no longer any BCA teachers certified. That occasion has to be at least 15 years ago.
Now, everything is PBIA Certified. Hopefully this is a better product than 20 years ago.

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02-05-2020, 11:14 AM

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Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
I'm not sure what "torso weight" is supposed to mean. I've never heard of that term before but if you mean the weight leaning against the table, then you're wrong. The goal is to be in balance at the table. Being in balance does not necessarily mean equal distribution of weight on those particular body parts.
Hey Fran.

He may be talking about the bodies center of gravity.

https://sciencing.com/three-principl...y-8452207.html

John


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02-05-2020, 11:50 AM

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Originally Posted by One Pocket John View Post
Hey Fran.

He may be talking about the bodies center of gravity.

https://sciencing.com/three-principl...y-8452207.html

John
Thx...………Yep.


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02-05-2020, 09:39 PM

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Originally Posted by Island Drive View Post
Upper body/core weight, that is displaced between your legs, causing your body to not want to lean one way or the other. Your core is the third leg of your weight distribution. It cannot be too forward or too rearward, it must be centered between your feet. As you know, if you stand up straight and bend forward with out sticking your backside out, you'll fall over. It's like a teeter totter, different bodies are able to stick out their backside more that others. Being aware of your core weight is the 3rd leg.

If you look at a Karate stance, they are in perfect balance when they are set, and ready to deliver a kick. If they had their core weight too forward or rearward, they would not deliver the weight of their kick effectively.
But it doesn't mean that the weight should be evenly distributed among all three parts.
  
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02-06-2020, 06:28 AM

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Originally Posted by bbb View Post
Thanks for the reply Matt
If the pros stand angled why do you not recommend this for amateurs?
At what stage of skill is it ok to be angled?
The pros have hit a million balls PROPERLY and can see the shot and are CONSISTENT in stance.

For any challenging shot I stand perpendicular first. I also am disciplined to stand far enough back from the table to plan shape and angles before I step toward the table. (Starting further back then moving in gives the optical illusion that the upcoming cut is progressively easier as you approach the table, too.)

To answer your question, when perpendicular pre-stance does not make a BIG improvement in your aim and shot making, step in!

--But the other thing is it helps with another discipline, getting the body and arm angles correct. WATCH amateurs who are not only stepped in, their head tilted, making for a poor view of the upcoming shot, but air stroking and fidgeting so that their final stance and alignment to both the cb and ob are in bad shape.


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02-06-2020, 07:31 AM

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Originally Posted by BilliardsAbout View Post
The pros have hit a million balls PROPERLY and can see the shot and are CONSISTENT in stance.

For any challenging shot I stand perpendicular first. I also am disciplined to stand far enough back from the table to plan shape and angles before I step toward the table. (Starting further back then moving in gives the optical illusion that the upcoming cut is progressively easier as you approach the table, too.)

To answer your question, when perpendicular pre-stance does not make a BIG improvement in your aim and shot making, step in!

--But the other thing is it helps with another discipline, getting the body and arm angles correct. WATCH amateurs who are not only stepped in, their head tilted, making for a poor view of the upcoming shot, but air stroking and fidgeting so that their final stance and alignment to both the cb and ob are in bad shape.
Thanks again for the reply
  
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02-06-2020, 08:43 AM

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Hey Fran.

He may be talking about the bodies center of gravity.

https://sciencing.com/three-principl...y-8452207.html

John
I'm pretty sure I know what he's trying to say, John and I do understand the concept of the center of gravity. However, what I'm taking exception to is the equal distribution of weight. That's not true unless you're standing erect. When you bend over, you have to counter the forward torso bend with more weight on the back end in order to be in balance. This is an area that I've studied extensively, both as a player and as a teacher.
  
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02-06-2020, 08:58 AM

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... ie your body perpendicular to the shot line...
I apologize for any confusion to my question
I'll nit pick on this point. "Perpendicular to the shot line" is not a clear way to say this. "Perpendicular" refers to the relationship of two lines (or planes). The first line -- the shot line which is the line of the cue stick and the cue ball's path -- is clear enough, but what is your other line?

I think something like "facing the shot squarely with both the hips and shoulders square to shot line" would be clearer. If that's what you meant.

To answer your question, I think that your exact body position when back away from the table and sizing up the shot is not critical. I think it helps a little to be consistent, and I think that if you work on your shot routine consciously your "back away from the table before I step forward" position will become consistent more or less on its own. It is way, way down the list of things to fret about.

How is your fist bridge?


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