Old
  (#16)
Patrick Johnson
Fish of the Day
Patrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond repute
 
Patrick Johnson's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 21,622
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2007
   
04-06-2020, 10:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3kushn View Post
I'm asking what is the amount of spin (English) added or subtracted from the CB after colliding with the OB. Is there a way to quantify some way in order to adjust is the real question. What do I add or subtract depending on the hit and angle?
As said before, it depends - but you can develop a feel for it with an organized approach:

With no side spin, cut-induced CB spin is maximized with a slow stunned half ball hit and minimized with full (straight) and thin hits.

Using that as guidance, place an OB on the spot and shoot it directly at the middle diamond on the end rail from various cut angles, stunning the CB so it goes at a right angle directly into the side rail at the second diamond. Start with no side spin and note the CB’s rebound angle off the rail for each amount of cut angle. Then find the amount of inside spin needed to straighten the rebound out at each cut angle.

Then try different speeds and tip heights.

pj
chgo
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#17)
bbb
AzB Silver Member

bbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 7,411
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 45 / 100%
Blog Entries: 2
Join Date: Mar 2008
   
04-07-2020, 03:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by straightline View Post
Why'd you trash this?
Tried to send you a pm but could not
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#18)
3kushn
AzB Silver Member
3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute
 
3kushn's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 2,774
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Feb 2006
   
04-07-2020, 04:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by straightline View Post
Sounds to me like he's curious about nailing the zone in that 1' circle right around the first contact. This area is a soup of catastrophic flip-flops if you're trying to nail the point of change. It's worse if a cushion in that circle is the second collision. Add positional requirements and shooter inconsistency, it's no wonder the players rely on cinch stroke shots rather than shot plotting.
straightline, So that you have a better idea what I'm talking about, here's another diagram. First of all I'm talking about Clocking the CB. Applying a determined amount of English that gives me a specific amount of spread which I attempted to show with the 4 lines going to the 3 diamonds.

With the shot on the right, in theory (and basically in practice) in order to make the shot, my tip placement needs to be where I achieve 2 diamonds of spread shown at the right. But the problem with on this shot there's a small amount of English that's removed from the CB from the collision on the OB.

The question is can the subtracted amount of English be determined in some way? I am aware there's all kinds of variables that can enter into this but hoped there was at least a starting point.

For now I'll just accept what Patrick is saying. Practice and figure it out. There is no real formula of any kind. Only that this hit produces more that that hit.

Name:  Clock-Explanation.jpg
Views: 55
Size:  11.6 KB
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#19)
straightline
AzB Silver Member
straightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 479
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2018
   
04-07-2020, 04:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3kushn View Post
straightline, So that you have a better idea what I'm talking about, here's another diagram. First of all I'm talking about Clocking the CB. Applying a determined amount of English that gives me a specific amount of spread which I attempted to show with the 4 lines going to the 3 diamonds.

With the shot on the right, in theory (and basically in practice) in order to make the shot, my tip placement needs to be where I achieve 2 diamonds of spread shown at the right. But the problem with on this shot there's a small amount of English that's removed from the CB from the collision on the OB.

The question is can the subtracted amount of English be determined in some way? I am aware there's all kinds of variables that can enter into this but hoped there was at least a starting point.

For now I'll just accept what Patrick is saying. Practice and figure it out. There is no real formula of any kind. Only that this hit produces more that that hit.

Name:  RE.jpg
Views: 43
Size:  31.6 KB
Good you picked one close to the cushion.
What I'm thinking is you don't get the same action as just shooting the ball not so much from friction cancelling your english but from the carom exit not having the room; the distance, for the ball to settle into the intended path.

IOW the cue ball bounces a hair further up table than desired requiring more left spring to bring it into spec for this shot; part of that 1 foot circle of chaos every time balls collide.
If that's confusing I'll try and refine my English (lol) or someone who gets it can translate into billiardese.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#20)
straightline
AzB Silver Member
straightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond reputestraightline has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 479
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2018
   
04-07-2020, 04:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
Tried to send you a pm but could not

Going now to UCP to open PMs
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#21)
Patrick Johnson
Fish of the Day
Patrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond repute
 
Patrick Johnson's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 21,622
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2007
   
04-07-2020, 06:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3kushn View Post
This reminded me of an old post of mine about calibrating the amount of sidespin to get 1, 2 or 3 diamonds of crosstable angle change. Don't know how relevant it is to your main question...

pj
chgo

Name:  Calibrating Sidespin.jpg
Views: 47
Size:  162.9 KB
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#22)
3kushn
AzB Silver Member
3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute3kushn has a reputation beyond repute
 
3kushn's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 2,774
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Feb 2006
   
04-07-2020, 01:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
This reminded me of an old post of mine about calibrating the amount of sidespin to get 1, 2 or 3 diamonds of crosstable angle change. Don't know how relevant it is to your main question...

pj
chgo

Attachment 545656
Its relevant in that, that's what I do. The issue is losing or gaining CB spin depending on inside or outside English is applied, so the tip placement needs to be moved to compensate for that.

Again I think you're right I just need to practice certain shots with various hits and angles and figure it out for myself. I'm getting there after 4hours today.
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 2 of 2 12

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.