12 mm vs. 13 mm?

Peter 808

Registered
I recently started to shoot with a 12 mm tip (9 ball). I really like the way it looks when I am hitting away from the center of the cue ball and I feel like I am getting less deflection on side english shots (I use a standard maple shaft). My only problem is that I am not as accurate (compared to a 13 mm) when drawing or hitting shots with top spin. I am also having problems drawing the ball as much as I used to with a 13 mm. I play with a dime shaped layered tip as well.

Should a novice like me stick to a 13 mm and leave the smaller diameters to the more advanced players?
 

pooltchr

Prof. Billiard Instructor
Silver Member
It isn't a question of novice or advanced play. It's your perception. Remember as soon as you hit anything other than a center ball hit, you are no longer making contact with the center of your tip. The farther from center ball you move, the farther in the opposite direction the contact point of your tip moves.

Changing tip size means you must adjust your perception as to where exactly your tip will be making contact with the cue ball. If you are off, you will either get too much or too little spin.

If the 12 feels better, then learn to use it. don't try to switch back and forth. Consistency is the key!

Steve
 

pooltchr

Prof. Billiard Instructor
Silver Member
best advice i have read tonight! steve your a genius!

I'm sure I could find a dozen of my old High School teachers who would disagree! :grin:
(Probably because much of my time was spent in the pool room rather than doing homework!)

Steve
 

JLD

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In addition to excellent advice pooltchr gave the smaller 12mm shaft is going to flex more than the stiffer 13mm shaft. Since the 12mm shaft flexes(gives) more on an offcenter hit you will not be imparting as much power for the same amount of stroke speed of the larger shaft. It is much easier to muscle a cue ball around the table with a stiffer shaft than one that has a lot of flex in it. Another possibility could be that you are using a different tip on the 12mm shaft than the 13mm you were playing with. Variances in tip hardness also have an effect on the amount of cue ball speed produced with a given stroke speed.
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JLD...I have to disagree, in part, with what you said. It depends on the shaft. Just because it is thinner, it doesn't necessarily mean it will flex more. IMO, the G-Core shaft flexes LESS than my normal 13mm shafts, that came with my $4K custom cue (and they are certainly GOOD wood). The graphite core rod, that runs the length of the G-Core shaft, makes the shaft play (for me) like it was a steel bar...and I notice no defection at all (although I know that is physically impossible). My normal playing shafts are 13mm, but my G-Core is 11.75. Also, tip variances are, for the most part, far too small to account for any differences in CB speed. It's all about the quality of your stroke.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

In addition to excellent advice pooltchr gave the smaller 12mm shaft is going to flex more than the stiffer 13mm shaft. Since the 12mm shaft flexes(gives) more on an offcenter hit you will not be imparting as much power for the same amount of stroke speed of the larger shaft. It is much easier to muscle a cue ball around the table with a stiffer shaft than one that has a lot of flex in it. Another possibility could be that you are using a different tip on the 12mm shaft than the 13mm you were playing with. Variances in tip hardness also have an effect on the amount of cue ball speed produced with a given stroke speed.
 

2_Fast_4_Fleas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
thanks for the back up there scott alot of these young guys think that because no one talks about 14 mm that it has never ever happened :) (its a double top private secret):cool:
 

All4Moose

Moose
Silver Member
we have gone from 14mm to now 11.75 with the z2? thats pretty interesting... i find myself a 13mm to be just a tad to big for my fingers, i like my shafts around 12.75 but i was playing with a z2 forever.... i couldnt imagine playing with a 14mm.... it would seem like it would be really difficult to get the same ammount of english and draw from a 14mm tip.... unless its all in the stroke?......
 

JLD

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have to disagree, in part, with what you said. It depends on the shaft. Just because it is thinner, it doesn't necessarily mean it will flex more.

The original poster stated that he was using standard maple shafts which is what I based my reply on. A thinner (1mm less as stated) standard maple shaft will certainly flex more than a thicker standard maple shaft. I agree that some thinner specialty shafts could flex less than thicker standard maple shafts. Heck even thinner higher density growth ring maple shafts would flex less than thicker low density growth ring shafts.

As for the tips there is a world of difference between the hit of soft, medium, hard and phenolic tips all of which produce minor differences in cue ball speed for the same stroke speed. The speed differences may be minor but they all require an adjustment to stroke to accomplish the same amount of follow, draw or english for a given stroke speed. A good example showing the difference in speed is the use of the extra hard phenolic tip used to obtain more cue ball speed than a leather tip can when breaking.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
tell you what i have a phillippi with a 13.5mm and I can put nasty slop on the ball, in fact that cue has more stroke in it than I do. I have hit with tons of differint shafts on differient cues and this shaft is the nuts...only problem is I find i can't aim tight shots as well (my perception) but as for the cue being capable of deleviring power on any kinds of english I say come line up your z shafts and ob1s and bet money. You two are right on the big tips, tho not my preference you can do at least the same and maybe more with them in certain areas.
 

Rich93

A Small Time Charlie
Silver Member
...and I notice no defection at all (although I know that is physically impossible). My normal playing shafts are 13mm, but my G-Core is 11.75...

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott, I think the small tip size (less end-mass) probably accounts for a lot of that reduction in deflection. If graphite weighs less than wood, I guess that helps also - I don't know if it does weigh less though.
 

Fenwick

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I remember when the larger 14 mm shaft faze was going strong here in Wisconsin; early 70's. One player had this huge shaft, 15 or 16 mm. I took it a step further and ordered a 16 and a 18 mm. Still have them and pull them out just for grins from time to time. There are still a few 14's hanging on the wall at the pool hall I frequent.

Back to the subject at hand I play with what feels right to me. Have been playing with Z-2's for 3 years. Small hands ,and a 12.5- 13 mm feels way to big. Others say it's like shooting with a pencil. IMHO playing with a small shaft leaves less room for error and I don't mean in a necessarily good way.

Just a old Newbie's Observation.
 

pooltchr

Prof. Billiard Instructor
Silver Member
I have a cue made by Stealth that I used when I owned a pro shop in a pool room. The cue is over 7 feet long and has a 20mm tip! It was designed for display purposes, but we actually had one guy who would take on challengers and use the darn thing! The only real problem was it was impossible to get any draw with it. I still have it packed away somewhere.

Steve
 

NewStroke

Screamin Monkey
Silver Member
I have a cue made by Stealth that I used when I owned a pro shop in a pool room. The cue is over 7 feet long and has a 20mm tip! It was designed for display purposes, but we actually had one guy who would take on challengers and use the darn thing! The only real problem was it was impossible to get any draw with it. I still have it packed away somewhere.

Steve

In Texas we call that a very long broomstick. :)
 

highrun55

can`t make a ball anymore
Silver Member
big mamma cue

I have a cue made by Stealth that I used when I owned a pro shop in a pool room. The cue is over 7 feet long and has a 20mm tip! It was designed for display purposes, but we actually had one guy who would take on challengers and use the darn thing! The only real problem was it was impossible to get any draw with it. I still have it packed away somewhere.

Steve

I still have one mounted on the wall in my room, its a great conversation piece.
What the heck is that they say, I tell them its for SHAQ or COBY to use if they ever come in. It actually hits real good to.

highrun55
 

pocketmaster

New member
Very accurate statement Steve. I have used a 12.5 mm for over 30 years and have only have 4 cues in that amount of time. This means I knew my cue and it capabilties very well. At times I would experiment with different size shafts and it is obvious that changing from one size to another not only affects the physical, but weighs heavy on the mental part of the game as well. Shots that you are confident in with a 12 mm shaft, you may not be so comfortable with, with a 13mm. Then your second guessing yourself and BOOM.....you dogged the shot.
 
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