Gripping with the back two fingers.
- Thread starter mnorwood
- Start date
I try to watch all of Brandon's videos. When I do it makes me happy that I'm a certified instructor. I don't think Brandons info will actually hurt anyone maybe the contrary. I do know that Brandon needs lessons himself.
Holding the cue with your back two fingers is nothing new. If that makes Brandon's cue go straighter then that's what he should do. Other students should try this also, as I'm an avid believer of a cradle. If you watch the video a little closer, at the time of impact, his grip changed to a tighter grip.
Brandon has a crooked moving cue and a dropped elbow, that's not what I call a good stroke.
Have a great day
randyg
Holding the cue with your back two fingers is nothing new. If that makes Brandon's cue go straighter then that's what he should do. Other students should try this also, as I'm an avid believer of a cradle. If you watch the video a little closer, at the time of impact, his grip changed to a tighter grip.
Brandon has a crooked moving cue and a dropped elbow, that's not what I call a good stroke.
Have a great day
randyg
YES!! Absolutely! Been teaching that for years. It's a great way to stop a twisting habit. Feels as uncomfortable as hell at first, but once you get used to it, it's the nuts. I've always called the first two fingers the 'twisting fingers.'
BTW, you don't have to remove first three fingers. You just have to take the pressure off of them. If you watch Brandon shoot, he doesn't acatually remove them from the cue.
You can also shoot with the last three fingers (rather than the last 2) as I believe that the first two are the real culprits for players with twisting issues.
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As a former (and sometimes current) twister, I second everything Fran said. Those "pincer" fingers can be the source of great feel but can also be huge detriments to your stroke/swing in pool, golf, tennis, etc. The cradle grip tries to avoid that as well but might not be for everyone.
Scott
Scott
Folks:
This technique has been used by snooker players for decades. It's called the "rear-fingered" grip.
Here's an example -- at 8:00 minutes into the Ronnie O'Sullivan vs. Chia-Ching Wu in the World Pool Masters (this link will go right to that spot when you click on it):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=W2Ye61WiLMk#t=8m
(Watch Ronnie's grip hand very closely in this outtake. You can see how the "pincer fingers" -- i.e. the forefinger and the thumb -- are completely loose and relaxed, while the cradle fingers -- the middle/ring/pinkie -- are cradling the cue.)
Additionally, think of it this way -- when you grip the cue like this, you are more emulating the way you throw a dart or a javelin, but in an underhanded fashion. That is, the leading fingers "fly outward and away" like a sabot, with the rear fingers being the ones to support the throwing implement until the last possible moment. In the case of throwing a dart or a javelin, because you're throwing it overhanded, your ring and pinkie are the sabot, and "fly outward and away" as you go through your stroke, with the "rear fingers" (the pincer fingers in this case, the forefinger and thumb) being the last to release contact from the throwing implement.
This is reversed for delivering a cue, because you're delivering it underhanded, not overhanded. Thus, the rear fingers are the ring and pinkie -- the thumb/index/middle are your sabot.
Fran is right, in that you don't have to exaggerate the movement with the "sabot" fingers opening up and flying away. It's sufficient to just feel the thumb and those first fingers release pressure from the cue, with the fulcrum in your hand being the ring and pinkie fingers that the cue rests on.
It's a very effective, time-tested, and proven technique.
-Sean
This technique has been used by snooker players for decades. It's called the "rear-fingered" grip.
Here's an example -- at 8:00 minutes into the Ronnie O'Sullivan vs. Chia-Ching Wu in the World Pool Masters (this link will go right to that spot when you click on it):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=W2Ye61WiLMk#t=8m
(Watch Ronnie's grip hand very closely in this outtake. You can see how the "pincer fingers" -- i.e. the forefinger and the thumb -- are completely loose and relaxed, while the cradle fingers -- the middle/ring/pinkie -- are cradling the cue.)
Additionally, think of it this way -- when you grip the cue like this, you are more emulating the way you throw a dart or a javelin, but in an underhanded fashion. That is, the leading fingers "fly outward and away" like a sabot, with the rear fingers being the ones to support the throwing implement until the last possible moment. In the case of throwing a dart or a javelin, because you're throwing it overhanded, your ring and pinkie are the sabot, and "fly outward and away" as you go through your stroke, with the "rear fingers" (the pincer fingers in this case, the forefinger and thumb) being the last to release contact from the throwing implement.
This is reversed for delivering a cue, because you're delivering it underhanded, not overhanded. Thus, the rear fingers are the ring and pinkie -- the thumb/index/middle are your sabot.
Fran is right, in that you don't have to exaggerate the movement with the "sabot" fingers opening up and flying away. It's sufficient to just feel the thumb and those first fingers release pressure from the cue, with the fulcrum in your hand being the ring and pinkie fingers that the cue rests on.
It's a very effective, time-tested, and proven technique.
-Sean
It doesn't matter how you hold onto the cuestick, as long as the cradle pressure (light) remains the same throughout the stroke. Index finger and thumb; back three fingers; back two fingers; fingertips; or whole hand grip...all that's important is keeping a light grip, and letting the weight of the cue, and timing, create the speed of the stroke.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
+1 Fran
The first two fingers are the strongest fingers on the hand and can cause issues with some players.
I have gone to this grip. I use to use three fingers.
Now my index and middle fingers are loose around the cue and only my ring finger and pinky are craddling the cue. The two weakest fingers on my hand.
Like one poster stated this puts the craddle behind the wrist.
I like it. Man, you can really feel the ball and thats what its all about.
John
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ive been using this past 2 days now, works great, def a straighter stroke for me, although it is harder to draw the cue ball when only cradling with back fingers, i find if i cradle with all my fingers then finish the followthrough with just my pink and ring finger then its almost the same effect. kind of a hybrid of this grip, has worked great so well. i believe this is very similar to Lee Brett's V grip.
I like what you're saying here. You're taking information that's new to you and assimilating it into your game in a way that works for you.
I think it's important to know our tendencies at the table. When I see certain long shots that I tend to miss due to steering or twisting, I immediately consciously release my thumb and index fingers by taking the pressure off of them and feeling it more on my back fingers. Works great.
I thought Lee emphasized gripping with the front 2 fingers ? The thumb and index finger guide the cue and the rear fingers add the power ?
But the way I described as finishing the followthrough with the last 2 fingers holding the cue and ur thumb and index finger making a v, seems kinda similiar to lee's grip. Not totally sure tho, excited for my lesson with lee very soon tho.
I was shown this many years ago by my good friend Harry Sims only he advocated just the middle finger along with the thumb. He stated a similar argument as Fran. Helps straighten the stroke.
What it seems to do for me is kinda lock the wrist.
Funny I was talking to George Asby at Champ of Champs @ SBE about this as I saw several shots where the players incorporated this. He says Hmmm I'm gonna try that out.
And Neil, Harry's finish was like your describing. Index finger pointing to the shot.
What it seems to do for me is kinda lock the wrist.
Funny I was talking to George Asby at Champ of Champs @ SBE about this as I saw several shots where the players incorporated this. He says Hmmm I'm gonna try that out.
And Neil, Harry's finish was like your describing. Index finger pointing to the shot.
I think that any time you are thinking about your mechanics and focusing on some aspect of it you will see improvement. I don't think that the particular technique that Brandon demonstrated will be generally useful to most players. I suspect that if a player with trouble on long shots tries the middle-finger grip, or the first two fingers grip or the relaxed hand grip they are likely to see the same improvement.
In the case of the demonstrator on the video, it looks to me like his grip hand is "turned out" more than most pro players and that he might try rotating the cue stick clockwise (as seen from the rear) which will bring his hand closer to the alignment that the majority of top players use. I think that if he does that, he will see immediate improvement.
I have taught the "index finger point" technique for many years, to players who are struggling with gripping too tightly. Showed it to one of the students in the NC pool school today. It's a great technique to help learn how to "back off" how tight you grip the cue on the forward stroke. :thumbup:
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
This is the application that i use and la la la love it......
