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11-21-2019, 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjb View Post
Have you watched the entirety of his testimony, or just the pieces you've been fed by whatever source you rely on?

I'm betting on the latter.

I've watched it all. The evidence against Trump becomes more overwhelming with each witness.
It is really interesting that I have a friend who like yourself has watch the entirety of the hearings, and thinks exactly the same. That the mounting evidence is showing Trump to be guilty of QPQ.
I will also add that he does not like Trump or the R party at all. He also claims that any economic gains are all from Obama policies, along with any jobs that have returned to the USA.
I think it is all about perspective , and I feel that my friend is totally wrong.
He won't look at the situations of the lies being told by Vindman and many others.


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11-21-2019, 12:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjb View Post
Have you watched the entirety of his testimony, or just the pieces you've been fed by whatever source you rely on?

I'm betting on the latter.

I've watched it all. The evidence against Trump becomes more overwhelming with each witness.
Yes, taped and watched it all. Sondland was twisting in the wind. When he confirmed nobody on the planet had any evidence of QPQ, his response was his "presumption". If you want to run with presumption, but all means, get the house to vote already. This will be a slam dunk in the Senate.

You know GOP don't stick together as good as dems, and had there been some good evidence, there was more than a good chance many in the GOP would have voted to convict.

There is not a chance in hell the Senate convicts based on what they have laid out. This would not make it by a grand jury with this complete nonsense. I need 10 times this evidence to get a case of insurance fraud prosecuted. Surely, the office of the president is more important and a bit more important that a $50K insurance fraud claim, no ?

If this was a criminal case you would be asking the GOP to cut a deal right now. And Trump would say go FU lets go to trial. Remember, I love your witnesses, I want them to vote to impeach, I want this to go to trial. So, I'm getting everything that I want. the dems, not so much


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11-21-2019, 12:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRJ View Post
Yes, taped and watched it all. Sondland was twisting in the wind. When he confirmed nobody on the planet had any evidence of QPQ, his response was his "presumption". If you want to run with presumption, but all means, get the house to vote already. This will be a slam dunk in the Senate.

You know GOP don't stick together as good as dems, and had there been some good evidence, there was more than a good chance many in the GOP would have voted to convict.

There is not a chance in hell the Senate convicts based on what they have laid out. This would not make it by a grand jury with this complete nonsense. I need 10 times this evidence to get a case of insurance fraud prosecuted. Surely, the office of the president is more important and a bit more important that a $50K insurance fraud claim, no ?

If this was a criminal case you would be asking the GOP to cut a deal right now. And Trump would say go FU lets go to trial. Remember, I love your witnesses, I want them to vote to impeach, I want this to go to trial. So, I'm getting everything that I want. the dems, not so much
You make a good point about the insurance analogy, my fear is:

Some insurance companies are so big, they don't need to hear the evidence, they can just afford to pay it out.

I hope this isn't lost on the American people.
  
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11-21-2019, 12:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DelawareDogs View Post
You make a good point about the insurance analogy, my fear is:

Some insurance companies are so big, they don't need to hear the evidence, they can just afford to pay it out.

I hope this isn't lost on the American people.
It's a different animal when it comes to insurance fraud. The first part, the claim process, is a civil matter. And that decision to pay or not pay has no bearing on a the possible, future criminal matter that may take weeks or months before a case is accepted.

There is a reason why every major insurance company, mid-size ones and even small ones have Special Investigation Unti's (besides allowing me to make a living) its' to stop fraud claims by investigating them.

Maybe 5-10% come through from the claims dept to be investigated. Many have video, conflicting testimony under oath, forged or altered documents, staged accidents, etc etc.

And in some cases, they have direct witness evidence. We do not and never will allow hearsay because it's garbage. If joe blue tells me that joe green told him joe pink faked a claim, that's garbage. Let me talk to joe green and find out what he saw.

Even then, we'd never get a case prosecuted based on one eye witness. We'd need more than than, and need something else to corroborate the fraud. Surveillance, medical records, whatever. But, hey, that's just us, we don't submit sloppy cases to prosecutors and hope for the best. We present cases that have strong evidence that will support the felony charges. Just the way we roll.

If we had witnesses as bad as these schmuck the dems presented I could not get that prosecuted to save my life. And I was on the other side working as a criminal investigator and it was the same deal, you need evidence before you walk into the prosecutors office to expect him/her to go to the Grand Jury for search warrants, records requests, compel testimony, or even an indictment. Garbage witnesses turn into garbage cases real fast. May I present Exhibit A lol

That's why this is a complete joke from a criminal investigations stand point. I'd get laughed out of the court house If I ever showed up with only this. No prosecutor would take a case they can't win. And the dems can't win this case. They need overwhelming evidence to get the GOP members to move with them. With this garbage, I seriously doubt they got even one GOP to vote to convict.


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11-21-2019, 12:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRJ View Post
Yes, taped and watched it all. Sondland was twisting in the wind. When he confirmed nobody on the planet had any evidence of QPQ, his response was his "presumption". If you want to run with presumption, but all means, get the house to vote already. This will be a slam dunk in the Senate.

You know GOP don't stick together as good as dems, and had there been some good evidence, there was more than a good chance many in the GOP would have voted to convict.

There is not a chance in hell the Senate convicts based on what they have laid out. This would not make it by a grand jury with this complete nonsense. I need 10 times this evidence to get a case of insurance fraud prosecuted. Surely, the office of the president is more important and a bit more important that a $50K insurance fraud claim, no ?

If this was a criminal case you would be asking the GOP to cut a deal right now. And Trump would say go FU lets go to trial. Remember, I love your witnesses, I want them to vote to impeach, I want this to go to trial. So, I'm getting everything that I want. the dems, not so much
Extreme pressure was put on Sondland. His businesses are being boycotted and his family is being threatened.

He had to surround himself with a bunch of left wing beltway attorneys. The Demos want to destroy those around Trump.

I don't think Sondland is a bad guy it's just that his back is against the wall.

Vindman on the other hand is the toxic waste under the pond scum.
  
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11-21-2019, 01:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by overlord View Post
Extreme pressure was put on Sondland. His businesses are being boycotted and his family is being threatened.

He had to surround himself with a bunch of left wing beltway attorneys. The Demos want to destroy those around Trump.

I don't think Sondland is a bad guy it's just that his back is against the wall.

Vindman on the other hand is the toxic waste under the pond scum.
Yeah, they "turned" him and it still was not enough. If you are going to cheat and threat and bully a witness, at least get him to commit to the entire story. I loved that he confirmed nobody on the plant told him about QPQ.

But, he is a business guy who "bought" his ambassador gig. A $1M is nothing to him to donate, he just wanted to be important....... kinda sad really. Not sure why, but maybe he just really like Belgium chocolates


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11-21-2019, 03:56 PM

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Originally Posted by LWW View Post
I will.

1 - The USA is under ZERO obligation to prove foreign aid of any kind and for any reason.

2 - ALL foreign aid is an implied bribe, at least as implied as this case.

3 - The US has for decades declined to hold foreign aid recipients feet to the fire.

4 - The US has a statutory obligation to assist Ukraine and the Ukraine has a similar obligation to the US.

5 - The Ukrainians have found that the prior regime conspired with the democrats. This is a crime in both nations.

6 - The left are hypocrites in that they demanded investigation of Trump conspiring with the Russians on the argument that even without evidence it was too important to overlook without investigations. Those same hypocrites now want nothing to do with investigating a D conspiracy with Ukraine.

7 - This is much ado about nothing with nearly nobody watching the hearings, but public opinion is being shaped by Rachel and the like misrepresenting what is going on.
I found your comments 3 and 4 very interesting. One would argue that in light of the timeline and a belief in comments 3 and 4 , your comment 7 might be arguable to some. Not me, of course.


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11-21-2019, 04:00 PM

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Originally Posted by Smooth View Post
question 1 - no, it was never worthy of even being publicized let alone swept under a rug... it is normal diplomacy... there was/is nothing to sweep under the rug

question 2 - yes

questions 3 & 4 - not really sure what the questions are
So if your response to number 2 is "yes", you do not see that as quid pro quo, OR you think quid pro quo is not a big deal? Which?


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11-21-2019, 04:01 PM

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Originally Posted by LWW View Post
I'm betting its you who haven't watched based on your lack of knowledge.

BTW ... when might I expect royalty payments from you for copying my zingers without attribution?
I've watched it.


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11-21-2019, 04:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celophanewrap View Post
Can't we all just get along?
Personally, I don't see any reason to argue about it. These hearings and any subsequent
proceedings are totally and completely inconsequential. Who isn't absolutely sure of the
following:

1) At some point in the next several months the House will hold a vote to impeach.
Pretty much along party lines this vote will be successful, it will pass.

2) At some point not long after the House vote to impeach the Senate will hold a trial.
Again, pretty much along party lines the Senate will vote neither to remove or convict
POTUS.

With the current make up of the House and Senate, this will be the result

3) POTUS will claim total exoneration


We should get back to pool, the Mosconi Cup is about to be played, sounds like a good time
I agree 100%. Everyone will laugh about the nothingburger. Just like the Mueller Report. We can all then feel good that he has done nothing wrong and high five each other and settle in for 4 more years of good times.


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11-21-2019, 04:08 PM

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Originally Posted by overlord View Post
I watched a bunch of it but this morning with Holmes and Hill and it was too much.

Holmes was so long winded in his statement it was obscene. The idea that Schifty tells the truth is risible.

As El Dub has said many times the Bidens enjoy the Magic D. They are immune from Demo scrutiny.

Sjb suffers from Trump hate and can't distinguish personality from policy. The Demos will impeach Trump along party lines and Trump supporters could care less.

The supposition from the Demos, is that Trump should just allow them, to violate him.

It ain't gonna happen, Trump fights back which drives the left crazy.

It's looks to me like the Demos were feeding on the Ukrainians who are dirt poor.

If money and the quest for money is so evil: why do the Demos love it so?


Viva Trump!!!!!!!!

I agree with you. These hearings are hard to watch. It would be different if one of them would say something positive about the President.


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11-21-2019, 04:45 PM

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Originally Posted by tom haney View Post
So if your response to number 2 is "yes", you do not see that as quid pro quo, OR you think quid pro quo is not a big deal? Which?
the second, I think that ALL foreign aid is a quid pro quo... it better be for gawds sake

I think giving our money to other countries should be done on an extremely narrow set of qualifiers... it should be rare... that is taxpayer money that somebody had to earn before the feds could launder it... at least launder it in our own society/economy/citizenry for cripes sake...

there is no such thing as a "global citizen"... it does not exist
  
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11-21-2019, 04:55 PM

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Originally Posted by conetip View Post
It is really interesting that I have a friend who like yourself has watch the entirety of the hearings, and thinks exactly the same. That the mounting evidence is showing Trump to be guilty of QPQ.
I will also add that he does not like Trump or the R party at all. He also claims that any economic gains are all from Obama policies, along with any jobs that have returned to the USA.
I think it is all about perspective , and I feel that my friend is totally wrong.
He won't look at the situations of the lies being told by Vindman and many others.
Maybe the issue with your friend, SJB, and the rest of them who can't grasp reality is that they are hard of hearing?

Poor Fredo.

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11-21-2019, 08:34 PM

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Originally Posted by Smooth View Post
the second, I think that ALL foreign aid is a quid pro quo... it better be for gawds sake

I think giving our money to other countries should be done on an extremely narrow set of qualifiers... it should be rare... that is taxpayer money that somebody had to earn before the feds could launder it... at least launder it in our own society/economy/citizenry for cripes sake...

there is no such thing as a "global citizen"... it does not exist
Well, the President and his people seem to think it's important that it not appear to be quid pro quo. You do get that? The fact that just about everybody knows it was quid pro quo and we don't think it's important? What we think isn't important to Trump OR his enemies apparently.


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11-21-2019, 08:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by UGOTDA7 View Post
Maybe the issue with your friend, SJB, and the rest of them who can't grasp reality is that they are hard of hearing?
Originally Posted by tom haney
"So if your response to number 2 is "yes", you do not see that as quid pro quo, OR you think quid pro quo is not a big deal? Which? "

Smooth:
"the second, I think that ALL foreign aid is a quid pro quo... it better be for gawds sake"

Smooth's not the first of your buds to say this. They're hard hearing or they can't grasp reality?


God bless each and every one of you

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