How come you can run 18, 3 times, but not 54...

David Marcus said:

Recently, I've taped some practice sessions, with the goal being to run my age......I'm 53 FY.I ,
I ran 18 , 3 times in one session and made a stupid mistake EVERY time....if I could just string them together, I'm at 54!.....any advice.........

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Dave, im in the same boat as you, lol. Im 53 also and the other day i ran 17, and a bunch in the teens, but couldnt get over the hump.
For me i think i just play too quick and dont think about shot selection or my position play is off and i got to work harder than i should. In other words i make it harder than it has to be, thats my best guess.
My best run is 30 and that was 20 years ago, i made quite a few into the high 20,s and i always screw it up and i go on tilt after that.
If i find the answer, you are the first person i will let know !

I used to have the same problem, and I guess I still do it's just at a slightly higher level. I find myself putting lots of 30's back to back, but no 70's. I have been trying to play each rack independently, just forgetting about the last 14 and working on what's in front of me. It just seems that I start getting into the 3rd and 4th rack and my focus shifts to how high I am going rather than the layout of the balls.

I guess my advice would be to focus on the work you are doing at that moment. Make each shot independent from the previous shots, and make each shot count.

That's the curse of probability. If you weren't making any "stupid mistakes" you could run an infinite number of balls stringing "18 packs". And that is statistically impossible.

In simple terms, your average rate of failure is once after every 18 balls; with more practice your rate of failure will lower and your chances of getting a bigger run will increase too.

Let's say your chances of making a shot (on average) is 90%, then:

chance of running 10 balls = 0.9 ^ 10 = 0.35 (35%)
chance of running 20 balls = 0.9 ^ 20 = 0.12 (12%)
chance of running 30 balls = 0.9 ^ 30 = 0.04 (4%)
chance of running 100 balls = 0.9 ^ 100 = 0.00003 (0.002%)

With (a lot) more practice, your shot making improves to 99%, then:

chance of running 10 balls = 0.99 ^ 10 = 0.90 (90%)
chance of running 100 balls = 0.99 ^ 100 = 0.37 (37%)

Of course this is an oversimplification (position, pattern play, etc.), but you get the point :wink:

By the way, missing once every 19 balls is 94.7% shotmaking.

Do you re-rack after your runs end, or do you just continue from your miss?

I ask because if you re rack after every miss and start over, it might be that your break shot is not opening the rack enough to allow your runs to continue.

I was taught that because I'm inexperienced at straight pool to blast the break ball to open up the rack as much as possible since my patterns are not that strong yet.

Christian

That Bruce Lee quote ya got there just may be the answer to your question.

I'm in the same boat as you. My stumbling point, unless I fall into that zone we love, is usually the mid 30s or 40s. I think that's typical for us amateurs.

There are simply too many factors involved in dissecting what goes wrong specifically. Usually it is more than one thing. We are able to fight off one or two things for a while and after a while they start piling up on us both in our minds and on the table, and we miss.

Subtle things go wrong, and the better we get, the more subtle the things are that get in our way.

The frustrating part is that while some of the things that hinder us are the same, or similar, many more are unique to our own game and thought patterns and envisioning of the shots, the feel and touch of individual shots and pattern requirements and one person cannot specifically help another with their individual demons.

I know I can't expect much more playing 5 or 6 hours a week. Maybe 5 or 6 hours a day may help a bit, but the best advise I can think of is to be VERY aware of what goes wrong and remember it.

Are you attempting a touch draw shot that is on the edge of your ability to control? If yes, remember it may not be the shot itself that gets you, you might make the shot and the position, but the change of tempo, rhythm, or thought pattern that triggers the conscious mind that may get you two shots later. Remember, these things are subtle.

Did you get a tad too straight on that shot in the upper corner pocket and now you have to force follow it two rails a bit to get back in line? You can do that, you've done it many times, but ..... it triggers conscious thought because while you can do it, it certainly isn't as automatic as that last 4" laugher hanging in the pocket. So .... we take a second, fall out of rhythm, and the decay process begins. Not to mention that the 4" laugher may have been the cause of our getting out of line on that shot in the upper corner because it was so easy we lost some respect for position and got to casual with the shot. Now we pay on the next shot. Very subtle.

Subtle things that enter our minds are a huge hindrance to extended runs. So many ways to screw up and so few ways to be right on for extended periods of time. Especially playing a few hours a week. Don't knock yourself out trying to fix this, just play, enjoy the game for what it is and let the runs come rather than trying to make them come.

David Marcus said:

Recently, I've taped some practice sessions, with the goal being to run my age......I'm 53 FY.I ,
I ran 18 , 3 times in one session and made a stupid mistake EVERY time....if I could just string them together, I'm at 54!.....any advice.........

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It has oft been said that if you can run 25, you can run 50, 75, 100, and maybe more.

But it's not 

really true. I mean, I know that it's the PC thing to say to
 encourage aspiring players, but personally, I don't think it's really 
true where the leather meets the ball.

 In my experience a 14.1 run is a series of problems that you have to solve
 with knowledge and skills. There are spells during a run when you will see 
a series of simple problems that you're familiar with and can solve with
 basic skills. But as the run lengthens, you will inevitably 
see a wider variety of problems, and more and more esoteric ones that
 require more obscure knowledge and skills.

It might be a long stop shot, a
 thin cut that still requires much cue ball control, bumping balls open
 without tying them up, creating break balls, or using balls up table for a 
break. 

I've seen many players that have been playing for years and years and have
 never gotten past being 20 ball runners and never will. Either their basic
 skills are lacking and limit the variety of shots they can execute and/or
 their knowledge is deficient and limits the number and type of problems they 
can solve. They don't understand the game well enough to ever pocket
 more than a couple of dozen successive balls.


So as to advice: keep at it and your skill and knowledge will deepen and your runs will lengthen.



Lou Figueroa

David Marcus said:

Recently, I've taped some practice sessions, with the goal being to run my age......I'm 53 FY.I ,
I ran 18 , 3 times in one session and made a stupid mistake EVERY time....if I could just string them together, I'm at 54!.....any advice.........

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Stop getting lazy and 'comfortable'. Whenever I do that, my run goes from "very open and easy" to "dead". I hound myself to practice good fundamentals. It sucks. I blow them too often.

When I don't, I continue my runs.

David Marcus said:

I ran 18 , 3 times in one session and made a stupid mistake EVERY time....if I could just string them together, I'm at 54!.....any advice.........

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Advice? Sure. Don't miss your 19th shot.

I don't think its just a matter of practice or fundamentals. Unless you keep blowing open shots, its not mental either. I think it all boils down to how good you can control your cue ball. Watch a pro move his cue ball around. He doesn't only play for the correct angle on his next shot, he plays to be in a particular spot....not a zone. Most times he can draw exactly 2 inches if he needs to, or creep forward just an inch.

Theres also the aspect of seeing dead shots buried in the pack. These guys have a way of detecting things other people cant see. Even when they show you the shot, you go "huh, how the hell is that gonna go?"
I would call it an art form, which could only be learned by experience.

I've strung a few 30's together, but never ran more than 50. If I wanted to take it seriously, I'd stop playing 9 ball and start doing draw drills.

very good

perspicaz said:

That's the curse of probability. If you weren't making any "stupid mistakes" you could run an infinite number of balls stringing "18 packs". And that is statistically impossible.

In simple terms, your average rate of failure is once after every 18 balls; with more practice your rate of failure will lower and your chances of getting a bigger run will increase too.

Let's say your chances of making a shot (on average) is 90%, then:

chance of running 10 balls = 0.9 ^ 10 = 0.35 (35%)
chance of running 20 balls = 0.9 ^ 20 = 0.12 (12%)
chance of running 30 balls = 0.9 ^ 30 = 0.04 (4%)
chance of running 100 balls = 0.9 ^ 100 = 0.00003 (0.002%)

With (a lot) more practice, your shot making improves to 99%, then:

chance of running 10 balls = 0.99 ^ 10 = 0.90 (90%)
chance of running 100 balls = 0.99 ^ 100 = 0.37 (37%)

Of course this is an oversimplification (position, pattern play, etc.), but you get the point :wink:

By the way, missing once every 19 balls is 94.7% shotmaking.

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that is awesome. Another thing, try to keep the count out of your mind. If you think that is 18, then 19 gets harder, and so on. The psychology of going from 1 to 2 is much different than 50-51 if you have never been there. Work on that mental part of it and you will go further. (remember what happened after the 4 minute mile was broken)

Just a thought

I am fairly new, we just started a league last year, and I have seen a few descent 8 ball and 9 ball plays quit already. My reasoning for them quitting is:
I think the game of 14.1 brings all your faults out in the open and it bothers them. It is a great game, and you have to be good at all aspects of the game.

David Marcus said:

.......so, .....your telling me that I'm a 95% shooter but I can't break 20....really,...is that right....in other words, the gap between 95% and 99.9% is HUGE !!

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If you're a 95% shooter you will miss 1/20 balls. A 99% shooter will miss 1/100. That is a monstrous gap that separates the best from everyone else. But it's so fun trying to get there

John Schmidt said something similar in one of his videos.
"It's not 'twice as hard' to run 200 vs. 100, it's like ten times as hard.
And the same applies to 400 vs. 200".

I don't have any great advice except try to play the "right way", the textbook way, and don't let fear
guide any of your decisions. If the right shot is a little tougher but it will solve a problem, take it.
Don't take the easy one now and try to solve the problem later, it will bite you in the ass.
Also hit the break shot like you mean it. Don't cinch it. Blast those balls so you can run 'em
with less work later. It's not gonna cost you anything if you miss except a little time.

MENTAL. High runs in 14.1 come from focus on every shot, good patterns, knowing how to break the rack from many last ball positions, and a lot of patients...unless you're SVB or some of the other young guns. Johnnyt

CreeDo said:

Also hit the break shot like you mean it. Don't cinch it. Blast those balls so you can run 'em
with less work later.

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I want to preface my response by saying that I have always liked your posts, CreeDo, but this is the first time I have seen you say something wrong...

Beginners typically hit the break shot too hard most of the time. They get buried in the pack and end up rebounding all over into clusters. Hit the break shot softer than you think you need to, this isn't 8-ball!

You should always play it to get the cueball off of the stack. Cinch it and wing a corner or 2nd ball... you'll find amazing results. Picture someone breaking for One Pocket and doing it badly. They hit it pretty softly, but balls are everywhere and lanes are open. That should be your Straight Pool break every time.

Don't hit the cue just softly enough to roll onto the stack and freeze, either. Too soft is as bad as too hard.

Perspicaz had a great reply with his statistical representation but it only addresses half of the equation. Johnnyt hit upon the second piece of the pie.

Two players with equal knowlwdge and skill of the game will select and position their shots in similar ways. While your skill level plays a key factor , your pocketting percentage is always a variable number, relative to the intensity of your focus.

Because of this, two players with equal knowledge and skill can have significantly different numbers when it comes to their high runs. While both players may have a 90% overall pocketing percentage, it does not necessarily mean that both players possess the ability, when pressed to achieve a specific goal, to get into an extended zone of intense focus.

It's like the difference between a sprinter and a marathon runner. One athlete has conditioned his body to perform a specific task for a much longer period of time.

The fact that one player can run 18 balls three times in a row but can't get to 50, likely reflects the current limits of his intense focus relative to his skill level. Technically, if you have the skill-set to consistently run 20 balls in a row then you have the knowledge to position efficiently enough to run 100. 1 miss in 20 is equal to 5 misses in 100 or reasonably a 95% pocketing percentage...well above the 90% used in a previous thread for statistical purposes. Barring bad rolls, poor conditions or a nasty cluster.... the only thing that would stop you is your level of focus.

This is why your abililty to get into the "Zone" is so critical to performance but being able to stay there longer is critical to high runs.

You will often hear people say their run ended because they made a stupid mistake. This is because they knew what they were supposed to do but failed to execute. Quite often, it is simply a breakdown in focus not a breakdown in skill, that contributes to these types of stupid mistakes.

An eighteen is four balls after a fourteen so you run a rack and starting another rack. What are you doing four balls int a rack. If you are trying to run that rack you might not be looking at a rack like some better players do.

First make the first ball in rack this big part of running balls

You have to ID problems that need fixed so you can play to them and you also have to clear out pockets and routes/rails this is first 5-8 balls

You have to clear rest of table prior to last 3 balls final pattern balls should tie together if ball before breakshot is more than a stop shot you should be rolling in or out of break area if you rolling across the line rather than with it you will have issues


Read cappelle straight pool and end patterns take a lesson from a great player schmidt will teach so will ray martin or whoever you like the greats all are pretty open to teaching.

You can run your age.