is the break the most difficult shot in pool?

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
peace azb. been lurking, excited to participate in a different way.

I love pool/billiards, but have only begun to appreciate it on another level over the past little while, so thanks in advance for bearing with me.

I'm also a big tennis fan, and in tennis, the serve is generally considered the most important/most difficult shot in the sport. the serve is where the point begins, and the server, more often than not, has the advantage in winning the game where he/she is serving. it is considered the most difficult shot in tennis for several reasons, not least the fact that so much of the body is required to come together to execute the serve often with power, but certainly with control.

watching efren play old dcc the other night, I got to thinking, is the break not unlike the serve in tennis, in terms of consistent importance, and difficulty factor?
the one historical knock on old man magic seems to be his break- why is that? why has a man who over time, has proven himself to be a master of his mind and body everywhere else, had so much (relative) trouble with the break?

I've seen him break good before (making balls, controlling the cue ball), but doesn't it seem strange that a man with his skill sets should have so much trouble executing that shot?

efren philosophy aside, the break shot itself is one that also seems to require a great physical continuity- from the feet all the way up to the hand, and eyes- does the break require more from the body itself than any other shot?

and knowledge- how hard, how fast, where, and with what spin- these are considerations that can be applied to all shots, but with cue ball in the kitchen (and sometimes break box, etc.), and the balls/rack- triangle, magic rack, what gaps or not, etc.- the break isn't just physical, there's a lot to potentially think about, too!

of course there are plenty of fancy shots out there that require fancy thinking and stroke, but is there a shot in pool more regularly attempted, more important to the outcome of the game that is more difficult to hit well?

I'm over here debating myself, but where's the fun in that..would love to hear y'all thoughts on the subject :smile:

cheers,
sean
 

CalBlackSheep

Registered
Sorry no help here, but I'd like to hear what others have to say. Because I have been trying to improve my break lately.

I've also noticed Efran struggle with the break in some of the matches I've watched and you've got me thinking now. From my limited knowledge I "think" it depends on what game you're playing. In 9 I've noticed a lil slower hit allows me to pocket more balls and improve position on the one. Where as 8 requires more energy to get a nice spread. So yes when you need a harder/faster shot but still hit the cue ball accurately while moving just about all of your body parts, I can see how this would be considered one of the most difficult shots.

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pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Unlike tennis, you don’t have to be a brilliant breaker...just an efficient one.
....you don’t have to make a lot of balls, just one.

When Buddy Hall, in his prime, was giving champions the 8, I doubt it he was in the top
hundred breakers, but he broke good enough to stay at the table.
 

King T

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well...,

Unlike tennis, you don’t have to be a brilliant breaker...just an efficient one.
....you don’t have to make a lot of balls, just one.

When Buddy Hall, in his prime, was giving champions the 8, I doubt it he was in the top
hundred breakers, but he broke good enough to stay at the table.

Buddy Hall always had a good break and it is an advantage for those who have figured it out. Players that get from the break what they expect seem to get into a flow quicker.
 

Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The break is very, very important...but it's also amazing at how often the power break shot can be worked around.

Big table 9 ball there is often an effective cut break at firm speed that is most effective.
Big table 10 ball with the magic rack the optimal speed might be 18mph.
One pocket there is no open break, same with straight pool.
Bar box 9 ball with a magic rack is a soft break.
Bar box 10 ball with a magic rack (or 9 ball without) is a solid hit but not all out speed.
Bar box 8 ball the 2nd ball break can be quite effective.

So for me while I am trying to continuously improve my break, a surprising amount of the time it isn't as decisive as you'd think. I'm guessing Efren found that as well. Plus it doesn't hurt to be able to Z kick balls in.
 

Bic D

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I said this in an earlier post...

I had a stint placed in my heart a few Saturdays ago and the only thing they told me was...don't cut the grass, don't take a bath/hot tub, and don't wash dishes for a couple weeks

I jokingly asked if I could play pool and they said ..."sure, just don't break, if you're right handed"

I played in a tournament that Monday night. I didn't flip the coin and let everyone break. I played some of the best pool pool I've ever played in my life and won the tournament.

I wasn't worried about the break...just my right wrist. I didn't hit any hard shots or any shots for which I wanted to play extreme English yet I blew through the field and won the tourny and the one after that. In fact...After that....people stopped taking the break and was asking for the flip instead.

In my opinion...I think it depends on your field of competition when playing on the local level
 

hotelyorba

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think it only is the most important shot if you are more than likely to run out on your first chance. So probably a 60-70% chance or more. And yes, that immediately makes it the most difficult shot as well, because chances are that your opponent will be about as likely to run out too so you'll want to stay at the table.
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
@cal- why efren struggles with the break eludes me, but I agree that break quality can depend on the game, another layer to depth of that shot!

@pt- in tennis, big servers do rule those stat categories, but one of the all-time greats (and my personal fave) roger federer is right there stat-wise with the big servers (aces, unreturned serves, service games won, etc.)- he's doesn't serve with a lot of velocity, but his service placement is stellar, which has certainly "served" him very well over the years (cheap rimshot)- definitely efficient. I'm not sure who the pool equivalent would be, but corey deuel and his soft breaks come to mind, with placement and control superseding power.
to you and @kt, I will definitely look more at buddy hall's break.

@tin man- one thing I love about pool, is that while it's a lot of math and science at work, you still have to feel the game. I know he knows the angles as well as anybody, but efren very much looks like a "feel" player to me- I love his style/process, and yes, in regards to his shotmaking prowess, it's hard to argue with his results :)

@bic- glad to hear you're hittin'm good! maybe you've already answered this in another thread, but are you postulating that you played well because you didn't use a lot of english? how was your break? did you do anything differently than you usually do?
good health.

@hotel- astute point- if those at the table aren't running out, the result of the break is less important.

thanks everybody for the replies!
 

Bic D

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
@bic- glad to hear you're hittin'm good! maybe you've already answered this in another thread, but are you postulating that you played well because you didn't use a lot of english? how was your break? did you do anything differently than you usually do?
good health

In retrospect, I think I played very well that night and the next because I put zero pressure on myself. I just wanted to get out of the house and didn't care if I won and expected not to. I played a much slower rhythm than I usually do and I pretty much hit everything with center english. My break is pretty good but on these 2 nights, I let my opponent break.

What I found is...I can usually break and run out about once every 7 racks. When I let someone else break and run a few balls, I found that I ran out about once every 2 or 3 racks. Percentage wise for me...it just makes sense for me and my level of competition to give the break away....in 8-ball. I would not give the break in 9-ball
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Unlike tennis, you don’t have to be a brilliant breaker...just an efficient one.
....you don’t have to make a lot of balls, just one.

When Buddy Hall, in his prime, was giving champions the 8, I doubt it he was in the top
hundred breakers, but he broke good enough to stay at the table.
How much have you seen Buddy play? I mean in his prime? Well, i saw him play a BUNCH. Top 100 breakers??? He usually made a ball, parked his rock and proceeded to run-out. If not, you were dead hooked or he pushed-out to a shot that most would pass back and then he'd really put you in jail(or run out again). Buddy was a great breaker.
 

Derek7646

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think the break is the most difficult and most important shot in pool. Can't break and run, make the 8 on the break, make the 9 on the break or if playing 8ball, choose the balls with the least problems/easiest runout if not playing married to the break, assuming you make a ball.

At this point in my game, the biggest problem with breaking and running for me is the breaking part. Everyone tells me i have a great snap and can control the cue decently in the middle of the table in 8ball but there is so many factors that go into a good break. Making a ball, getting a shot, not scratching etc. Sometimes you control the cue in the center perfectly, make three balls and a wild 5 ball slams you into the side pocket. In 9ball, i can get that perfect hop and stop right in the middle of the table a good amount of time however, sometimes the 1 just doesn't go where its supposed to or i don't make a ball and the 1 stops perfectly for my opponent. There is definitely a bit of luck involved in the break but there are things you can do to be more consistent in pocketing balls and controlling the cue, which i believe makes this the hardest shot in pool, as well as the most important. Making a ball on the break is the difference between you breaking and running and your opponent running out on your dry break.

As someone said earlier, it definitely depends on your level of play. If i have six broken ribs and i have a blood clot on my right side that will kill me if i break and i am playing shane van boening, i'm still not giving him the break.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I think the break is the most difficult and most important shot in pool.
I don't think it's either one. Shots with precise aim, squirt/swerve and speed control challenges are far more difficult IMO, and the breaker and non-breaker win about the same percentage of games statistically, so it doesn't seem that important either.

pj
chgo
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
How much have you seen Buddy play? I mean in his prime? Well, i saw him play a BUNCH. Top 100 breakers??? He usually made a ball, parked his rock and proceeded to run-out. If not, you were dead hooked or he pushed-out to a shot that most would pass back and then he'd really put you in jail(or run out again). Buddy was a great breaker.

When I say top hundred breakers, I’m talking all time.
I first knew Buddy in his early thirties.....when, in my opinion, he had one of the best strokes
ever....we talked a lot, and sometimes when he practised in the morning, I’d take the
next table...I told him I wanted some of that rubbin’ off.
I told him once you could put his stroke on a snooker cue and win the world title.

But when you compare Buddy’s break to Billy Johnson, Bustie, Shane, Earl, Tony Ellen....
...and a whole flock of guys that Buddy could give the 7/8 to, he’s well out of the top 100.
....he was just “ good enough”.

But I’ll put his stroke up against anybody in history....this was back when Buddy didn’t
have all that extra weight.....don’t think there is anything on the webb that shows it.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
To be successful at the break shot at nine ball -- it's clear that the OP is not talking about games like 14.1 and one pocket -- you have to pocket a ball, spread the balls well, position the lowest ball on the table and position the cue ball for a shot on the lowest remaining ball.

I think there are fewer than 50 people in the world who can do that consistently and maybe fewer than 5. The best at mastering this under some sets of rules is Corey Deuel.

I'd say that learning how to rack or read the rack if someone else is racking is more important than being able to hit the ball real hard.

For the vast majority of pool players the break at nine ball is not important. It is just a shot to get the game started. Do your best not to scratch and you'll be OK.

In the 1980s Pat Fleming -- who was in the top 50 players at the time -- did the stats and discovered that at that in pro tournaments the breaker lost more than 50% of the time. Think about that. That's for the pros of that time. Pat's clever solution was to let his opponent have the break until the opponents caught on and stopped accepting the break. Or so I'm told -- I didn't see this in person.

Today you can look at the stats posted by AtLarge. That includes breaker-wins percentages. The break is not an advantage for a lot of players.

So, I'd say for most players the break is easy. Just hit the one on the nose and don't scratch.

Maybe Schofield's rules will catch on and then we can talk about real skill on the break shot and everyone can throw away those stupid break cues with the phenolic tips that damage the cue ball.
 
Last edited:

CGM

It'd be a lot cooler if you did.
Silver Member
My break sucks and it is why I lose most of the time. For the life of me I can't figure out how to consistently make balls on the break. So yeah, I would say, in my game it is the most important shot.
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
peace azb. been lurking, excited to participate in a different way.

I love pool/billiards, but have only begun to appreciate it on another level over the past little while, so thanks in advance for bearing with me.

I'm also a big tennis fan, and in tennis, the serve is generally considered the most important/most difficult shot in the sport. the serve is where the point begins, and the server, more often than not, has the advantage in winning the game where he/she is serving. it is considered the most difficult shot in tennis for several reasons, not least the fact that so much of the body is required to come together to execute the serve often with power, but certainly with control.

watching efren play old dcc the other night, I got to thinking, is the break not unlike the serve in tennis, in terms of consistent importance, and difficulty factor?
the one historical knock on old man magic seems to be his break- why is that? why has a man who over time, has proven himself to be a master of his mind and body everywhere else, had so much (relative) trouble with the break?

I've seen him break good before (making balls, controlling the cue ball), but doesn't it seem strange that a man with his skill sets should have so much trouble executing that shot?

efren philosophy aside, the break shot itself is one that also seems to require a great physical continuity- from the feet all the way up to the hand, and eyes- does the break require more from the body itself than any other shot?

and knowledge- how hard, how fast, where, and with what spin- these are considerations that can be applied to all shots, but with cue ball in the kitchen (and sometimes break box, etc.), and the balls/rack- triangle, magic rack, what gaps or not, etc.- the break isn't just physical, there's a lot to potentially think about, too!

of course there are plenty of fancy shots out there that require fancy thinking and stroke, but is there a shot in pool more regularly attempted, more important to the outcome of the game that is more difficult to hit well?

I'm over here debating myself, but where's the fun in that..would love to hear y'all thoughts on the subject :smile:

cheers,
sean

The weaker the break you have, the stronger player you HAVE TO BE to overcome it.

I know lots of weak players with rather strong break that still can't win because they have to deal with safes and run outside after they make 3 balls on break and then dog a ball or shoot a weak a55 safe and lose. Control of the table.
 

Luxury

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think having a hard accurate 10 ball break requires a certain level of athleticism. I think the best breakers are probably talented at other sports.

Efren just doesn’t look that athletic to me. That’s the only logical explanation I could think of.

Or maybe he just never thought it was as important as mastering kicking and running out and just didn’t practice it as much.




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MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is the break the hardest shot: No, you always have a straight roll from the CB to the head ball with no interference. anyone who can't this the rack where desired needs either: a) more practice, or b) to try a different sport.

Consider the OB trapped behind 3 interfering balls and the only path there is a Z-shot (or 5-rails) where ball in hand is a complete sell out.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is the break the hardest shot: No, you always have a straight roll from the CB to the head ball with no interference. anyone who can't this the rack where desired needs either: a) more practice, or b) to try a different sport.

Consider the OB trapped behind 3 interfering balls and the only path there is a Z-shot (or 5-rails) where ball in hand is a complete sell out.
Sure...all depends on the definition.
But perhaps by measures of frequency and potential benefit, it is most difficult single shot.
 
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