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Lemon/Spread, Part II
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Lemon/Spread, Part II - 04-04-2008, 11:29 PM

Scottster posted a good thread on his view of what he thought should be done to hustlers who lay down the spread (lemon). Let's not get into morals or ethics (and please, no cutting off thumbs with bolt cutters!aaagh)
In re-reading the thread, it appears many agreed with Scott, but There were
a greater number that didn't. Scottster, didn't you laugh at the Newman, Redford movie "The Sting"? That was the ultimate spread. Let's hear some stories about the old Roadies (Puckett, Cooney, Weldon Rogers, etc) who really laid it down good. Many times it backfired. Usually caused by some nit, (who wouldn't bet two St. Bernards could whip a Chiuahua); knocking the action. Come on old timers, tell some fun stories.I will add a few later.

Dick
P.S. C'mon Charles M, I know you have some too!!!

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04-05-2008, 03:37 AM

Unfortunately, I can't add anything here. By the time my generation came along and started playing, the nits were already in full force, knocking anything that resembled action.

I will await some good stories here though.

I'm certain you have more than a few to add.
  
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04-05-2008, 05:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy M.
Unfortunately, I can't add anything here. By the time my generation came along and started playing, the nits were already in full force, knocking anything that resembled action.

I will await some good stories here though.

I'm certain you have more than a few to add.
One of the best I ever saw was "Pot's and Pans" named Bunnie Rogoff. He wass a short little guy nearly bald and when he held a cue, he looked like he did for pool what Orson Wells might have done for designer jeans.

he had the ugliest stroke ever created and the greatest drunk act ever. Each time I saw he was on the bar box and would only play 8 ball. P & P had the miscue down to a fine science

I sent him and Dave Nottingham to a place in Aurora Colo. and put them on a guy who bet big money at the horses and dogs, and who loved pool but wouldn't bet $2.00 there 7 days in the week.

The next thing you know P & P had him betting $340 per game and ended up winning about $2000 off this "Double Nit". When it was over, everyone in the pool room was in awe and trying to figure out what had just happen. It was all I could do to keep control of mysef and keep from blowing it.
  
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04-05-2008, 07:57 AM

when D.liberto was the house pro in Golden 8 ball on Indian school road in phoenix some well known players ( steve knight,Roger Griffis,etc) used to be the regulars of that joint( late 80s )
one day a 'D' level player was banging the balls.Roger Griffis approached this 'D' player and asked for 2 $ a game.The 'D'player agreed and played.Roger lost three games in a row.then the 'D' player took roger`s money and quit. that is what that 'D' player told me.This is an example of 'hustling backfired'.
That 'D' player later became a BCA instructor,developed that accustats system.





Hustling in pool is an art and I will defend it till I die.
  
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04-05-2008, 08:57 AM

Dick, here's one for you that occured at Cotton Bowling Palace in Dallas, TX. The date was some time in the early 1960s. A stranger starts coming in most evenings and plays for some some money with several of the regulars. He's a cigar smoker, real friendly, and goes by the name Kilroy. He's getting weight from all the regulars and making small scores here and there. After about a week of this, he flashes a hefty bank roll and wants to play for a little more cheese. Of course, he's now willing to take less weight. He makes a few more scores and after another week he's playing with no weight. And still winning. By now we all snap that he's a road player, but he's so friendly and easy going that no one seems all that upset at being hustled. Now he's been hanging around about 2-3 weeks and has been accepted by the regulars. He's still playing a few matches, usually giving up weight now, a still making a few bucks off the night crew at Cotton Palace. Then one evening the funny little guy shows up, acting a bit drunk and flashing lots of cash. He wants to play high and everyone jumps at the chance of staking Kilroy to play the guy. And naturally all the rail birds get bets down on Kilroy with this idiot. You know what happened next, right? The "idiot" was Bunnie Rogoff (aka Pots & Pans) who was actually Kilroy's road partner!


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04-05-2008, 09:07 AM

OK Dick, here's a Jack Cooney story for you:

In the spring of 1967, I was in Florida with a buddy of mine and ran into Jack at the Congress Bowl (Bowling & Billiards) in Miami Beach. I didn't know him at the time but he was playing 9 ball with several different guys (one at a time) from Jacksonville, I believe) who looked to be pretty decent players. Jack was well dressed but he had a towel hanging out about two feet from his back pants pocket and was carrying his cue (he was using a house cue at the time) around on his shoulder, like a soldier with a rifle. He was playing with a flat hand bridge and I was wondering how long it would take the others to knock him out. He rarely ran over two or three balls at a time and didn't seem to have a particularly good stroke.

At any rate, my buddy, Tom, goes to the bathroom at about the same time Jack did and when he comes back he tells me he put up all our money and we had half of Jack's action (he was low on cash at the time) in a set against one of the three guys. I was stunned. I asked him why he would bet all our money on a guy who could barely make a ball. Tom, who did have good instincts, told me that he was sure he had seen Jack somewhere before and that he just knew that he was a better player than he was showing. I said I hope you are right or else we will be walking back home to North Carolina. Now, with a critical interest in the outcome, I watched the game much more intently. I began to notice that while Jack never ran over two or three balls that he almost never missed on either the eight or the nine and he usually didn't leave much of a shot when there were only a few balls on the table.

At any rate, after several sessions lasting all night, Jack finally ended up a couple of thousand dollars ahead. The three guys were broke and just couldn't believe that they had been beaten by this guy. They all had nice cues and played pretty well. And this other guy was playing flat handed with a house cue and carrying it around like a rifle. After they had left, Jack, Tom and I went to get something to eat and split up our winnings. Boy, was I ever relieved. As I recall, Tom and I ended with a little over a thousand as our share, which was decent money back in those days. Jack introduced himself and told us he was from San Francisco. He was driving a beige colored Pontiac LeMans and was by himself. I'm not sure whether he had met Barbara by that time.

The next night we went back to Congress Bowl and saw Jack practicing with his own cue. After watching for only a few minutes, I realized that this guy was a real player. And to think that the night before I was worried about him being able to beat several average players. At about that time the guys that he had beaten the night before walked in. The look on their faces was priceless when they realized that they had unknowingly taken on a guy who was way better than any of them. At least they didn't say or do anything. Shortly thereafter, they left and never came back.

Anyway, that was almost 40 years ago and Jack may not remember it, but it was certainly a pleasure meeting him under those particular circumstances. He was very nice about everything and even offered us a little more than half his winnings, saying that he really appreciated us backing him when we didn't really know him. We declined and he cheerfully paid the breakfast tab for the three of us.

I hope things are currently going well for him. He was a really nice friendly guy, as well as a hell of a good player.
  
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U.J. Strikes Again !!
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U.J. Strikes Again !! - 04-05-2008, 10:15 AM

Not exactly a spread story, but Puckett rolls into a small southern town where he'd heard there was some action. The joint had an old concrete floor,littered with cigarette butts and the occasional gob of chew.
Despite these conditions, the player he eventully got down with was a
young guy who was playing barefoot. They both started out "stalling"
But as the bet (and the side action) increased, the kid started playing better and better. He is giving Puckett fits. U.J had never smoked in his
life, but he bought a pack of cigs and began puffing away. He'd get one
good and hot then drop it on the floor and light another one. After about
half a pack and 10 "YIPES" from the barefoot kid, Puckett had him so rattled he was able to finish him off. Next day the kid came in wearing shoes. Puckett, in his inimitable Texas drawl said, " Waaal
sonny boy, looks like aa'm gonna need some weight if we play agin".

Dick

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04-05-2008, 10:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillPorter
Dick, here's one for you that occured at Cotton Bowling Palace in Dallas, TX. The date was some time in the early 1960s. A stranger starts coming in most evenings and plays for some some money with several of the regulars. He's a cigar smoker, real friendly, and goes by the name Kilroy. He's getting weight from all the regulars and making small scores here and there. After about a week of this, he flashes a hefty bank roll and wants to play for a little more cheese. Of course, he's now willing to take less weight. He makes a few more scores and after another week he's playing with no weight. And still winning. By now we all snap that he's a road player, but he's so friendly and easy going that no one seems all that upset at being hustled. Now he's been hanging around about 2-3 weeks and has been accepted by the regulars. He's still playing a few matches, usually giving up weight now, a still making a few bucks off the night crew at Cotton Palace. Then one evening the funny little guy shows up, acting a bit drunk and flashing lots of cash. He wants to play high and everyone jumps at the chance of staking Kilroy to play the guy. And naturally all the rail birds get bets down on Kilroy with this idiot. You know what happened next, right? The "idiot" was Bunnie Rogoff (aka Pots & Pans) who was actually Kilroy's road partner!
I don't mind the lemon...in fact, think that using only that amount of skill required in a given match is fine.

But dumping is another matter altogether. There is a guy by the name of Moose who should be feared by people who dump.

(-:
  
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I totally agree !
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SJDinPHX
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I totally agree ! - 04-05-2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by av84fun
I don't mind the lemon...in fact, think that using only that amount of skill required in a given match is fine.

But dumping is another matter altogether. There is a guy by the name of Moose who should be feared by people who dump.

(-:
Dumping is the lowest form of life on the food chain. Many times I wished
I could have proven what took place. I agree with some of the poster's
on Scotter's thread, they should be hung by their thumbs until their pool playing
days are over.

Dick

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04-05-2008, 01:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SJDinPHX
Dumping is the lowest form of life on the food chain. Many times I wished
I could have proven what took place. I agree with some of the poster's
on Scotter's thread, they should be hung by their thumbs until their pool playing
days are over.

Dick
I agree. Someone puts their faith and money on you, and you conspire to take it and split with someone else. Famous quote for ya'll.

I asked a well known player how he did at the US Open.

"Well, I slept through my first match. Lost my second. It's all good. I borrowed almost eight hundred."

That is another form of person that has no intention of "doing the right thing."


"Yeah, they all have a gameplan 'til I hit'em in the face."



And I'm Still Sportin' McLovin
  
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04-05-2008, 04:14 PM

In the early 90's, I managed a pool room that had a great weekly 9 ball tourney. One night, this guy shows up, doesn't play, and railbirds it. I talk to the guy and he says he's in town for a while working a contract at one of the local air bases.

After a few weeks of showing up and not playing, he starts side betting on a few matches. This goes on for over six months. The guy never steps near a table to play.

One night, he is side betting against one of the better players in the tourney. He wins and the good player, for some reason, takes exception to this guy winning a bet off of him. The railbird just laughs it off which really pisses the player off. Finally, the player starts barking at the railbird to actually show some balls and get up and play.

Real quick, the railbird says, "Bet what you want and the rail is open!!!"

Anything the good player asks for (1K bet, which table, rules, etc.), the railbird says "OK, no problem."

Since no one has seen this guy ever hit a ball, everyone jumps on the good player. Finally, it's +3K with all the side bets with a race to 9.

The railbird ends up beating the good player 9-1. He only missed one ball the entire set.

Railbird collected his money and we never saw him again.

"Who was that masked man?" was the motto around the room after that for quite a while.

Stones


"A friend will help you move but a good friend will help you move the body."

"My girlfriend doesn't care what I do when I'm away at the poolroom, as long as I don't have a good time."

"Welcome to all Pool Players, Railbirds and Other Liars."

…the old Lakota was wise. He knew that a man’s heart, away from nature, becomes hard; he knew that lack of respect for growing, living things soon led to lack of respect for humans, too. So he kept his children close to nature’s softening influence.

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04-06-2008, 02:53 PM

[QUOTE=SJDinPHX]Scottster posted a good thread on his view of what he thought should be done to hustlers who lay down the spread (lemon). Let's not get into morals or ethics (and please, no cutting off thumbs with bolt cutters!aaagh)
In re-reading the thread, it appears many agreed with Scott, but There were
a greater number that didn't. Scottster, didn't you laugh at the Newman, Redford movie "The Sting"? That was the ultimate spread. Let's hear some stories about the old Roadies (Puckett, Cooney, Weldon Rogers, etc) who really laid it down good. Many times it backfired. Usually caused by some nit, (who wouldn't bet two St. Bernards could whip a Chiuahua); knocking the action. Come on old timers, tell some fun stories.I will add a few later.

Dick
P.S. C'mon Charles M, I know you have some too!!![/QUOTE

My brother and I got hustled pretty good in some partner 8 ball.Come to find out we were playing Ronnie Allen and Weldon Rogers.The funny thing about is we still thought we could win.

By the way what ever happened to Weldon Rogers.
  
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04-06-2008, 04:03 PM

[QUOTE=roosterman]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJDinPHX
Scottster posted a good thread on his view of what he thought should be done to hustlers who lay down the spread (lemon). Let's not get into morals or ethics (and please, no cutting off thumbs with bolt cutters!aaagh)
In re-reading the thread, it appears many agreed with Scott, but There were
a greater number that didn't. Scottster, didn't you laugh at the Newman, Redford movie "The Sting"? That was the ultimate spread. Let's hear some stories about the old Roadies (Puckett, Cooney, Weldon Rogers, etc) who really laid it down good. Many times it backfired. Usually caused by some nit, (who wouldn't bet two St. Bernards could whip a Chiuahua); knocking the action. Come on old timers, tell some fun stories.I will add a few later.

Dick
P.S. C'mon Charles M, I know you have some too!!![/QUOTE

My brother and I got hustled pretty good in some partner 8 ball.Come to find out we were playing Ronnie Allen and Weldon Rogers.The funny thing about is we still thought we could win.

By the way what ever happened to Weldon Rogers.
Weldon had to do a little, er, um, time out. Last I heard he was let out of
his room and living in Knoxville. I'm sure he's doing OK. He's a good guy and
a real survivor.

Dick
  
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04-06-2008, 04:37 PM

[QUOTE=SJDinPHX]
Quote:
Originally Posted by roosterman

Weldon had to do a little, er, um, time out. Last I heard he was let out of
his room and living in Knoxville. I'm sure he's doing OK. He's a good guy and
a real survivor.

Dick
Yeah , he is living in Knox. Great guy. He does not play anymore, but he is one of the 2 guys that I named on my original post about unknown "monster" players. The other is Vernon Elliot.
  
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04-06-2008, 09:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SJDinPHX
Dumping is the lowest form of life on the food chain. Many times I wished
I could have proven what took place. I agree with some of the poster's
on Scotter's thread, they should be hung by their thumbs until their pool playing
days are over.

Dick
I happened to me...ONCE...at at the hands of two fairly well known roadies. Cost me a bag.

I couldn't prove it which is the only reason Moose kept on pigging out on the spicy Buffalo Wings. (-:

Actually, I would never have anyone harmed physically...but slashing tires??? Hmmmmmmmm...interesting.

(-:
  
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