TD's Responsibilities When Asked to Judge a Potential Double Hit Shot

jsp said:

This is clearly a popular opinion, but I still fail to see the logic in being obligated to notify your opponent (the shooter) that his shot is being watched by a ref. Notifying the shooter will only give him the advantage of rethinking the shot. Why provide an advantage to your opponent if it's completely unnecessary to do so?

Calling over the referee is to cover your own butt. You're in no way obligated to cover the butt of your opponent.

If it's a matter of sportsmanship...that you want to educate your opponent of the rules...then that's a different story. But in competition, you're in no way obligated to increase your opponent's education of the rules.

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With no ref, call goes to the shooter. If I'm shooting and I'm not made aware that the shot will be watched I'm going with my own judgement 100 percent of the time. Although my judgement will be well informed and will be made with the best of intentions. Until a player is made aware that the call is out of their hands the call goes to them. It's not very hard to understand at all.

As far as the idea that your unfairly giving your opponent the opportunity to rethink the shot, that's just how it goes. You can't have it both ways. If you don't want your opponent to have the opportunity to shoot the correct shot don't let him to the table.

You handled it correctly.

The ref doesn't explain how to shoot a shot legally during a match. You can do so after in order to explain the call. Whatever the ref says goes...even if they are wrong. People have to understand that or not play.

SBC said:

You handled it correctly.

The ref doesn't explain how to shoot a shot legally during a match. You can do so after in order to explain the call. Whatever the ref says goes...even if they are wrong. People have to understand that or not play.

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You don’t believe the shooter deserved to know the shot was being watched by a ref?

easy-e said:

You don’t believe the shooter deserved to know the shot was being watched by a ref?

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Out of curiosity, what difference would it make?

If I'm shooting, I don't give rats a55 who is watching. It will in no way change how I perform the shot.

Imo, ANYONE that needs to know before shooting has dishonest intentions by trying to "get away with it" since a ref is not watching.

Jmo, as has been proven, it's almost useless.

Rake

Maniac said:

This post and then I'm done here.

Who on this thread believes that the shooter, who obviously fouled, should get to continue shooting at the 8-ball for the cheese simply because he didn't know anything about the double-hit rule? Ruling or no ruling by the TD the guy FOULED and his ignorance should not be rewarded with the tournament win.

JMHO.

Maniac (stick a fork in me, I'm done :grin

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I agree 1000%.

It's the everyone gets a trophy crowd that would think otherwise.

Its called "be your own advocate", "be prepared", "do your homework"........ etc...

To me, it sounds like "welfare for pool"....

Rake

jrctherake said:

Out of curiosity, what difference would it make?

If I'm shooting, I don't give rats a55 who is watching. It will in no way change how I perform the shot.

Imo, ANYONE that needs to know before shooting has dishonest intentions by trying to "get away with it" since a ref is not watching.

Jmo, as has been proven, it's almost useless.

Rake

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The C player wasn't trying to get away with anything. He didn't know what he was going to do would be a foul. You are a very strong player. If you did that everyone would know you were doing it knowing it was a foul.

I believe the opponent had dishonest intentions by trying to get someone to watch the shot without the shooter's knowledge. He knew a weaker player was going to make a bad hit. He didn't want the shooter to know and then possibly shoot it a different way. Maybe he shoots it the same way and it doesn't make any difference.

We are talking about a C player. God forbid he cashes once in a tournament. You should want the weaker players to have fun and keep entering these tournaments. If they don't come back, the better players won't play either because there isn't enough money in the pot for them to try and grind it out against each other for $50. That is how weekly tournaments die.

I would want to know who is watching any hit for me so I can at least know if they are in a good position to see it. Over my shoulder and behind me isn't the best place to view any hit from.

I do not know where these tournaments are. Here if there is a questionable shot, everyone asks someone else to watch the hit. If I am shooting and it looks close, I will even ask someone to watch so there is no doubt.

jrctherake said:

I agree 1000%.

It's the everyone gets a trophy crowd that would think otherwise.

Its called "be your own advocate", "be prepared", "do your homework"........ etc...

To me, it sounds like "welfare for pool"....

Rake

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I’m as far from the “everyone gets a trophy” crowd as you can imagine. I do believe in the process though. If you want a hit to be watched, you inform your opponent and get someone to watch it. I agree that the end result would be the same here. But at least the shooter wouldn’t be surprised by an official behind him calling a foul after he hit the ball. I don’t mind asking my opponent to stand by so someone can watch a shot, and I don’t mind when they do it to me. Hell, someone already posted up some written rules outlining this.

To be VERY clear, I want ALL fouls to result in BIH whether a ref watches or not. But for the love of god, and for the sanity of the ignorant shooter, at least let the “referee” pretend to get in there and look at the damn balls.

Bob Jewett said:

It is relatively easy to judge most close-ball situation if you know how the balls work. Most players don't. A couple of hours on Dr. Dave's website will help.

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For those interested, here's the best place to start:

how to detect and prevent a double hit

Enjoy,
Dave

Sorry if this has been answered before but I wasn't going to read the 6 pages of this thread. IMO, first it's the players responsibility to notify their opponent that they want the hit to be watched. If they wait till the opponent is on the shot then I'm not going to come up and shark them.

Second, when I approach the shot that can be close to a double hit I will let the player know that I'm watching for a double hit. Advanced players already know this but in handicapped tournaments with inexperienced players it's a way to head off the trouble you had. The new player will ask what a double hit is and I will explain it to them. If the advanced player has an issue with this I'll tell them to pound salt.

Third, I never watch a hit unless I'm called to the table. It's unfair for other matches to watch hits in a willy nilly fashion.