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10-02-2019, 07:05 AM

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Originally Posted by 336Robin View Post
I agree with the above statement. My Grandparents scraped by and made it so their kids could get out of the situation we were born into in the rural mountains in the Appalachians. It took an entire generation and only a few of us made it out. My Grandfather was proud to do it. He worked in a mine and did odd jobs and gardened every square inch of ground he could. My Grandmother canned, dried, preserved every scrap she could find and my Grandfather found and buried apples and root crops in the ground, they had farm animals and we all hunted and fished. It was their life.

To this day I can't say how thankful I am for them without tearing up. They invested in their children who helped their grand children. Some made it out and some didn't. Money is something they had just enough of to get by. One of the daughters paid off the house for them when it came time to retire giving back to them. I wish I could say that they got to retire and live in ease for a long life but I can't. Sometimes life can be cruel but it is what it is. Their sacrifice was an example to me that caused me to work 2 jobs for over 20 yrs to prepare a way for my kid as my contribution.

I do think that the price of things in this day and age does not allow the common man enough of a chance to accumulate savings and contribute (in person) to his family and society is much worse off for it. We have a long way to go in respect to the chances we are giving the middle class to succeed. That is what much of the political division is about. Such a shame.

Robin,
I like this post of yours. You saw what your Grandparents did, and it made you eternally appreciative. The only thing I would add as an aside to your post, is that it is not just the price of things that prevents folks from saving, and investing in their families, it is also personal behavior. Many people turn wants into needs nowadays. Folks just don't behave the way your Grandparents did back then. The cloth that your Grandparents were cut from, is virtually non-existent today.


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  (#32)
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10-02-2019, 07:08 AM

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Originally Posted by philly View Post
All you have to be is married with 3 kids in college. I think there are a lot of families in that situation so I don't understand your reasoning.
Who is to say the above mentioned family doesn't have both spouses working and all of the kids working jobs also.

You have very little faith in the humanity residing in this country. Yup turn it down.

Yang's not getting elected anyway. Just a talking point that I found interesting.

Anybody else here that would turn the cash down if it's the law of the land?
Speaking for my family, I would have to take it as the 12k/year would not even offset the additional tax burden his "plan" would impose on my family.
  
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overlord
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10-02-2019, 07:18 AM

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Originally Posted by 336Robin View Post
This is an interesting post when you step back from it and really think about it.

We have developed a ideology that getting the most that you can for a product is what
you're supposed to do and we think that everyone should do that. Yet this philosophy
has us in a society where people can barely afford 1 child which doesn't replenish the
support for the ideology that we have and think others should use as a model.

This might have something to do with a shrinking Middle Class. When it gets to a certain
point you have rich and poor sort of like it was in Europe before we came here. Imagine
that? Keep taking care of those rich guys. That gig will be up one day and then you'll
see the example of why a Democratic Republic is hard to keep. Some people will
believe anything you tell them but in the end when peoples benefits are destroyed
society loses.

It takes 2 incomes now to just pay the bills, people can't afford much more than the rent or their payments much less health care insurance.

The list goes on but you're certain its their fault.

So why are we subsidizing big business? We need our money to fix our problems.

So many of the big companies were the lost cost provider. Standard Oil hated by the left sold energy on the cheap.

It was the Neo-liberals that brought down the tariff walls around American industries that were in place before 1945. The Demos like Wilson were the free traders. The Reps were always in favor of the tariff. Financiers and Wall Street types that make nothing love free trade. The US worker had the highest standard of living in the world when the US manufactured everything.

FDR was a free trader. All the products used in World War Two were manufactured in the US after the war the free traders deconstructed American manufacturing.

When I was a little kid we used to laugh at stuff that was made in Japan. We didn't laugh for long.

The American middle class has suffered from America's strange empire and the Bretton Woods monetary policy where the US policed the world and opened its markets to the world.

Robin tell me which communist country has a middle class?
  
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philly
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10-02-2019, 07:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanBpool View Post
Speaking for my family, I would have to take it as the 12k/year would not even offset the additional tax burden his "plan" would impose on my family.
Thanks for the honest reply. Anybody else take/turn down the monthly windfall?

Anybody walk past a $20 bill sitting on the ground with no one else around? After all taking the governments money in this instance would be perfectly legal.
You could take it and donate to charity, invest it, plan for your children/grandchildren's education, burn it.

Bueller?


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Slide Rule
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10-02-2019, 08:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by overlord View Post
So many of the big companies were the lost cost provider. Standard Oil hated by the
left sold energy on the cheap.

It was the Neo-liberals that brought down the tariff walls around American industries
that were in place before 1945. The Demos like Wilson were the free traders. The
Reps were always in favor of the tariff. Financiers and Wall Street types that make
nothing love free trade. The US worker had the highest standard of living in the world
when the US manufactured everything.

FDR was a free trader. All the products used in World War Two were manufactured
in the US after the war the free traders deconstructed American manufacturing.

When I was a little kid we used to laugh at stuff that was made in Japan. We didn't
laugh for long.

The American middle class has suffered from America's strange empire and the
Bretton Woods monetary policy where the US policed the world and opened its
markets to the world.

Robin tell me which communist country has a middle class?
Overlord

I would appreciate a book or other reference to Wilson and FDR being free traders.
Perhaps something short about Bretton Woods.

Milton Friedman had me convinced about free trade. Today, not so much.

Appreciate your references.

Al
  
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  (#36)
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10-02-2019, 08:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by philly View Post
Thanks for the honest reply. Anybody else take/turn down the monthly windfall?

Anybody walk past a $20 bill sitting on the ground with no one else around? After all taking the governments money in this instance would be perfectly legal.
You could take it and donate to charity, invest it, plan for your children/grandchildren's education, burn it.

Bueller?
the government's money? there's no such thing
  
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  (#37)
BryanBpool
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10-02-2019, 08:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth View Post
the government's money? there's no such thing
Bingo.

Philly calls it a windfall, when its just sleight of hand.

On one hand the govt will give you 1k. While you focus on that, the other hand is taking back that 1k, and more, a few dollars at a time via increased taxation.
  
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10-02-2019, 08:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by philly View Post
Thanks for the honest reply. Anybody else take/turn down the monthly windfall?

Anybody walk past a $20 bill sitting on the ground with no one else around? After all taking the governments money in this instance would be perfectly legal.
You could take it and donate to charity, invest it, plan for your children/grandchildren's education, burn it.

Bueller?
That's my money you'd be taking.


IRATUS VULGUS
  
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  (#39)
j2pac
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10-02-2019, 08:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slide Rule View Post
Overlord

I would appreciate a book or other reference to Wilson and FDR being free traders.
Perhaps something short about Bretton Woods.

Milton Friedman had me convinced about free trade. Today, not so much.

Appreciate your references.

Al
Whenever someone tells me something is free, I ask...how much?


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  (#40)
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10-02-2019, 08:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by j2pac View Post
Whenever someone tells me something is free, I ask...how much?
Free? Yes. That is a warning word.

I wasn't aware that Wilson and FDR were promoters of Free Trade. I received my
early education about free trade from Milton Friedman.

Anything that Wilson and FDR would support, most likely has residual problems.

I need to fill in a missing piece.

I subscribed to Chronicles a couple of years back and they definitely are against free
trade. Though, the tight logic has eluded me.


.
  
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336Robin
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10-02-2019, 09:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by overlord View Post
So many of the big companies were the lost cost provider. Standard Oil hated by the left sold energy on the cheap.

It was the Neo-liberals that brought down the tariff walls around American industries that were in place before 1945. The Demos like Wilson were the free traders. The Reps were always in favor of the tariff. Financiers and Wall Street types that make nothing love free trade. The US worker had the highest standard of living in the world when the US manufactured everything.

FDR was a free trader. All the products used in World War Two were manufactured in the US after the war the free traders deconstructed American manufacturing.

When I was a little kid we used to laugh at stuff that was made in Japan. We didn't laugh for long.

The American middle class has suffered from America's strange empire and the Bretton Woods monetary policy where the US policed the world and opened its markets to the world.

Robin tell me which communist country has a middle class?
Tell me whose idea all the free traders loved the most? Nafta was
Reagans dream child and Bush wrote the most of it. Clinton fell for the bullshit thinking it would lead to jobs and
got it ratified. At least take the blame for what was done and put it squarely where
the blame lies. I'll be mad at Bill for you.

As far as the middle class? We can't blame anyone else for the destruction of our middle class except us.

You can't blame the left for that when you're giving away money to corporations that you'll have to steal from people later on.

You can't protect anyone as long as the can gets kicked down the road before something is done to fix things that we broke that once
was working perfectly.


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Last edited by 336Robin; 10-02-2019 at 09:19 AM.
  
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10-02-2019, 11:00 AM

We can go on the BitCoin Standard.


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10-02-2019, 12:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 336Robin View Post
The market sets the price and the price is what the market can get right?

If people were saving lots of money to fund their own retirements, they would probably think we aren't charging them enough.

This lesson seems to indicate how capitalism breaks down. We will be sure to be the last to learn it.
No. It doesn't. This failure has very little to do with that. You should never speak about what you know nothing of - that would be capitalism.

If we weren't subjected to the socialist Ponzi scheme of social security, and we had access to that same TAX instead of having to forfeit it at gun point, we would have plenty to invest in realistic retirement that would not limit payments to us, and would not get taken away if we were to get a part time job to supplement that pays too much.


Keepin' the rubber side down...
  
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10-02-2019, 02:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth View Post
the government's money? there's no such thing
So you WOULD take it. You'd probably give it to charity since you didn't earn it right. How many in your household over 18 years of age? Multiply that number by $1000 then multiply by 12 for a yearly dollar count windfall that gets added to your yearly earnings. Nice, huh?


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philly
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10-02-2019, 02:02 PM

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Originally Posted by BryanBpool View Post
Bingo.

Philly calls it a windfall, when its just sleight of hand.

On one hand the govt will give you 1k. While you focus on that, the other hand is taking back that 1k, and more, a few dollars at a time via increased taxation.
Did Yang say he was increasing taxes? I haven't heard that. When did he say it?


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Last edited by philly; 10-02-2019 at 02:05 PM.
  
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