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calboy8686
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12-09-2009, 06:14 PM

RIGHT ON MAN!!...... Thank you very much!! Now I'm getting the direction I wanted/needed.

Props to you on that and to the others that have been helpful (even though I don't know how to make those people stand out).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogsPlayingPool View Post
You are certainly starting out your collection in the best possible way. Ernie's cues are monsters both at the table and as an investment. There are of course other great cue makers. There is a lot of good info right here on the forum. Here's just one thread to help get you started:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=111969
  
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12-09-2009, 06:16 PM

It really isn't the best time for collecting in terms of making big money, but many people are selling their cues marked down due to the economy so I'm sure you'll be able to pickup a cue that you like at a very reasonable price. I see cue collecting like a big savings account that I can enjoy. I also enjoy the hunt for them. That's what really makes cue collecting fun, the enjoyment of the hunt and research to get them learn more. Getting to play with them is a big bonus too.
  
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12-09-2009, 06:22 PM

LOL!! Isn't that the point in a way? have a piece of "functional art" to enjoy, and somewhat razzle-dazzle your opponent whipping out and playing with a beautifull cue. Although I'm not one to be very flashy and show off (cause it's also a good way to invite someone to try and rob you or jack your cues), I prefer to have a cue that's VERY consistent in hit, something that when I stroke it the right way, will be an extension of my arm and will make cue ball control look EASY.
  
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vinniebabarooch
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12-09-2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRfireblade View Post
This is the wrong time to start collecting for investment purpose. There might not be another good time again.

That being said , my advice is to only buy stuff you really like and enjoy regardless of what it may be worth in the future. That's a universal collecting truth IMO and the only way to always be happy with what you have bought.

That's my .02 , free of charge.
I disagree.
This is a great time to start collecting cues. Most people are selling custom cues at a all time low. Find what you like and start buying. Do some research on what they are worth. I can guarantee if you stay with the top 5 cue makers, you will make money in the end. Now you just have to figure out who they are.


Always looking for Hercek's and Szamboti's......
  
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calboy8686
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12-09-2009, 06:59 PM

That's the trick..... Although I think I narrowed down the field some to:
Ernie Gutierez (Ginacue)
Ariel Carmeli
Chris Nitti
Paul Mottey

At least those are the names I seem to run into most often, as well as Paul Drexler, Tad Kohara, Jacoby (although his stuff seems to be all over the board), and Jerry McWorter (tried to contact him for some pricing info and never got a return email) although he makes some very nice looking cues, as well as Richard Chudy (RC3). Those are the ones that come to the top of my head.
  
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12-09-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by calboy8686 View Post
Hey All,

General question about cue collecting and hopeing someone out there can give me some sound advice.

I've played pool for years, was forced to take a break for a while, and started playing again, but at the same time I've always admired the different designs of people's cues, and wanted to start a modest collection. I've looked at literally THOUSANDS of different cues and am haveing one made for me.

Question is - What is the best way to start a collection, and what cue makers are worth collecting, buying/trading, and just holding onto w/o any play time (for investment purposes)?

I would appreciate any and ALL advice on this..... Thanks in advance.

There are many ways to start a collection, and it all depends upon your Bank Roll but the following may be very helpful.

1. Make a budget that you can spend annually for cues.

2. Research cue trends and do not be deceived by the SECONDARY MARKET. In many cases the market can be influenced by cue dealers throughout the community. These gentleman have customers always looking for the next great cue maker, so these gentleman are always on the lookout for new talent in the Cue Making Community. Does this mean that they are always right certainly not, however, their recommendations can have short term influences on their market so I would be careful buying high end products from new Cue makers. However, if you like what a new guy is building I would recommend buying directly from the cue maker, this way you will get the best bang for your buck. Next what many people do not realize is that the market is broken down into Antique Cues, Great playing Cues and Beautiful cues that are built from an artistic stand point. Collector cues fall into one of the three categories above but do not be deceived great collector cues do not have to be great playing cues, in fact many famous Collector cues will never really be used. If I started a collection today I would try and stay with a particular theme, such as, Antique cues, Butterfly Cues, Full Spliced cues, and on and on. I would also buy cues that are collectible but that are also known to be great players, this way you hedge your bet, because if the collectible side of the market is weak some one is always looking for a great player by a known cue maker.

3. Once you have chosen your collecting theme, I would place orders directly with the cue maker when every it is possible. First and foremost collector cues on the secondary market will cost you more, and second many cue makers only offer a warranty to the original owner. Buying from the cue makers directly also allows you put the funds away during the build period if you do not have unlimited funds, because most cue makers only require a deposit. While some will certainly disagree with me on the above you will get the best bang dollar for dollar buying directly from the cues maker.

4. Buy cues that you really love, this way you will always be satisfied with your purchase. No one can predict the future of this market, however, doing good research and by not buying into hype you should do very well long term. Again I can't say it enough, research is the key to collecting anything without being educated on this subject and by relying only on what others tell you can be a very expensive mistake.


Good Luck Collecting


Best Regards

"Warlock 1"

Craig W. Rittel
  
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12-09-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniebabarooch View Post
I disagree.
This is a great time to start collecting cues. Most people are selling custom cues at a all time low.
Customs , yeah. Custom builders are a dime a dozen nowadays and the future market will reflect that.

Truly collectables , now thats a whole different ballgame , no ones giving those away. Not the smart collectors anyways.
  
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12-09-2009, 07:51 PM

Try this site for learning about cues and what is important about the physics when discussing playability.

http://www.blackboarcustomcues.com/design/default.asp

I also think that you left him out of your list.
  
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Investing in cues
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Investing in cues - 12-09-2009, 09:20 PM

Cues are not an investment.
  
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runout1961
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12-09-2009, 10:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by poke&hope View Post
Cues are not an investment.
Why not? Although I highly believe EVERY cue was meant to be played with, how can you say cues are not an investment?

Not ALL cues are sound investments, but if you buy the right cues, you will never lose.

A profit is made when you buy, not when you sell. If you buy right, you can't go wrong......with certain cues of course.

Edited to add: to the OP-Deno Andrews says it best; collect what you like.

I've always kept that in mind and have never been dissatisfied with any purchase(s) I've made.

Last edited by runout1961; 12-09-2009 at 10:43 PM.
  
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calboy8686
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12-09-2009, 11:25 PM

I'm tending to agree with you. When the econ is down most people are wanting to cash out across the board. there should be a lot of deals to be had out there. But you also have a good point with trying to figure out who the top cue makers are. I have a fair idea, just by the number of times I see a particular name come up for sale and the price tag that goes along side, but your absolutely right, if I was going to try and make money then yes, it's all about staying with the trend of the top makers. But there are those of us that wand the benefit of both worlds - something nice to play with, AND something that will appreciate in value over time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniebabarooch View Post
I disagree.
This is a great time to start collecting cues. Most people are selling custom cues at a all time low. Find what you like and start buying. Do some research on what they are worth. I can guarantee if you stay with the top 5 cue makers, you will make money in the end. Now you just have to figure out who they are.
  
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  (#27)
calboy8686
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12-09-2009, 11:33 PM

Very good points.... In the end things do come down to money, taste, and like everything else in life - making the best choice possible in a given situation. In regards to buying directly from the cue maker - ABSOLUTELY for two purposes (that I can see at least - 1 in terms of price, and 2 in terms of something to either play with or sell/trade cause it's always easier to deal with new/gently used items than it is to deal with used items that have been mistreated. The other advantage with buying directly from the maker is you can set up a payment plan so cash flow is always maximized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manwon View Post
There are many ways to start a collection, and it all depends upon your Bank Roll but the following may be very helpful.

1. Make a budget that you can spend annually for cues.

2. Research cue trends and do not be deceived by the SECONDARY MARKET. In many cases the market can be influenced by cue dealers throughout the community. These gentleman have customers always looking for the next great cue maker, so these gentleman are always on the lookout for new talent in the Cue Making Community. Does this mean that they are always right certainly not, however, their recommendations can have short term influences on their market so I would be careful buying high end products from new Cue makers. However, if you like what a new guy is building I would recommend buying directly from the cue maker, this way you will get the best bang for your buck. Next what many people do not realize is that the market is broken down into Antique Cues, Great playing Cues and Beautiful cues that are built from an artistic stand point. Collector cues fall into one of the three categories above but do not be deceived great collector cues do not have to be great playing cues, in fact many famous Collector cues will never really be used. If I started a collection today I would try and stay with a particular theme, such as, Antique cues, Butterfly Cues, Full Spliced cues, and on and on. I would also buy cues that are collectible but that are also known to be great players, this way you hedge your bet, because if the collectible side of the market is weak some one is always looking for a great player by a known cue maker.

3. Once you have chosen your collecting theme, I would place orders directly with the cue maker when every it is possible. First and foremost collector cues on the secondary market will cost you more, and second many cue makers only offer a warranty to the original owner. Buying from the cue makers directly also allows you put the funds away during the build period if you do not have unlimited funds, because most cue makers only require a deposit. While some will certainly disagree with me on the above you will get the best bang dollar for dollar buying directly from the cues maker.

4. Buy cues that you really love, this way you will always be satisfied with your purchase. No one can predict the future of this market, however, doing good research and by not buying into hype you should do very well long term. Again I can't say it enough, research is the key to collecting anything without being educated on this subject and by relying only on what others tell you can be a very expensive mistake.


Good Luck Collecting
  
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calboy8686
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12-09-2009, 11:38 PM

I agree with you runout1961..... there are investment opportunities all over the board. Your right with saying "buy the right cues and you will never loose." That's kind of like playing the stock market in speculative times..... you can make money, but you can also loose your shirt VERY fast (reason I stay out of the stock market). However, I have to correct you on one thing - Profits are realized at the time of sale, not at the time of purchase because the difference (net gain or loss) occurs at sale or exchange time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by runout1961 View Post
Why not? Although I highly believe EVERY cue was meant to be played with, how can you say cues are not an investment?

Not ALL cues are sound investments, but if you buy the right cues, you will never lose.

A profit is made when you buy, not when you sell. If you buy right, you can't go wrong......with certain cues of course.

Edited to add: to the OP-Deno Andrews says it best; collect what you like.

I've always kept that in mind and have never been dissatisfied with any purchase(s) I've made.
  
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runout1961
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12-09-2009, 11:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by calboy8686 View Post
I agree with you runout1961..... there are investment opportunities all over the board. Your right with saying "buy the right cues and you will never loose." That's kind of like playing the stock market in speculative times..... you can make money, but you can also loose your shirt VERY fast (reason I stay out of the stock market). However, I have to correct you on one thing - Profits are realized at the time of sale, not at the time of purchase because the difference (net gain or loss) occurs at sale or exchange time.
Yes you are correct. But think about it, if you buy something at a good enough price, you have already made a profit just by purchasing the product. Therefore you make your profit when you buy. That is where I'm coming from with that. Obviously you do not see the profit until you sell the item. But if your into it at a good price, you know you've made money.

For instance, when I bought my Tascarella hoppe cue, I KNEW I was buying at a good price. Even when I shipped it to Pete for a complete refinish, I was still in the cue at one hell of a price. When the cue was done I sold it for a $700 profit. Then, about two weeks later I realized how good of a cue it was and bought it back. So now I am still into the cue for what I paid for it plus the refinish and I KNOW I will never lose because I bought it cheap enough.

To RRfireblade, this is a great time to collect cues as investments if you are planning on holding onto them for a while. People are dumping there cues left and right and if you have the cash it's a safe bet.....with certain cues of course.
  
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12-09-2009, 11:56 PM

I'm glad I posted this, almost all the responses to this thread have confirmed a large number of thoughts I've had on investing in cues and starting a collection. Even though "cue collecting and investing/investments" can mean something different to each person, the net effect is buying and selling at either a profit or loss.

My intensions are more in the direction of having a diverse number of cues - some to play with, and a couple that will appreciate value over time. But that's not to say that the number can't grow or shrink, sometimes it's worth to give up a couple from the "clutch" to get a more valuable or "fancier" cue. Example - In order to acquire a Balabushka (one of the most desirable makers among collectors), one may have to sell or have enough assets/cues of interest in order to have the cash equivalent to make that happen.

But as manwon said "you have to research cue trends" and follow the market closely in order to really make some money at this. I prefer not to get that technical about this area because if I was going to put that much time and energy into this, I may as well play the stock market, and I would probably do much better, just because this is a VERY narrow market.

I would much rather go for those that have both the playability, AND hold value well (even if it costs a little more up front, you get the quality workmanship that will keep the value of the initial investment at a relative constant rate - market baring of course).
  
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