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Reload this Page Anniversary bridge rack reproduction
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martin35
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08-14-2019, 02:53 PM

The next step I think is to have more precise dimensions. If anybody is kind enough to take some measurement on a existing bridge holder, it would be great. I'm actually in vacation but next week at work I can make a quick drawing to indicate the required measurement.

Thanks

Martin
  
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08-14-2019, 08:19 PM

Martin-
I have gathered from pictures in your earlier posts that you are a machinist.

This will probably make sense to you. I have made a system that mounts on the rail for my planer to cut gradual profiles on longish lengths, with a router and template follower. I have never used it for bending forms because it would not save time for the typical forms or work i get. But a system like this could generate a long M/F form for production. Such as an S-curve.....

As you know, remove the router & with a round nose stick tool in the clapper, it could do steel or Al.

This is sort of pool related - I have shown in the past that the planer is how i make shaft blanks, with a set of centers on the table & a tracer on the left column.

smt
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Last edited by Ssonerai; 08-14-2019 at 08:25 PM.
  
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08-15-2019, 05:29 AM

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Originally Posted by martin35 View Post
Thank you for the link

I want two of them, one on each side and also it's a nice challenging project for me, I really like to try new things.

Martin
I got that impression but wanted to share anyway.

Thanks for sharing the process, fun to watch.
  
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08-15-2019, 05:47 AM

While this discussion may not be completely billiards related, it still applies to the manufacture of these bridge holders.


Aside from that, it is a really cool technology. Very interesting to see. Thanks for sharing!


Geoff Bradshaw
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08-15-2019, 06:10 AM

Awesome post! IMO, this is PRODUCTIVE TALK!! Love it.

cant wait to see your finished product Martin, these Bridge holders will be awesome!

Trent from Toledo
  
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08-15-2019, 05:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssonerai View Post
Martin-
I have gathered from pictures in your earlier posts that you are a machinist.

This will probably make sense to you. I have made a system that mounts on the rail for my planer to cut gradual profiles on longish lengths, with a router and template follower. I have never used it for bending forms because it would not save time for the typical forms or work i get. But a system like this could generate a long M/F form for production. Such as an S-curve.....

As you know, remove the router & with a round nose stick tool in the clapper, it could do steel or Al.

This is sort of pool related - I have shown in the past that the planer is how i make shaft blanks, with a set of centers on the table & a tracer on the left column.

smt

SMT

While I've a machinist training and some working experience I'm only a hobby machinist. Actually I'm mechanical designer, I design tooling and machinery but I've always been facinated by the manufacturing processes and machine tools.

I really like this setup, it's creativity at his best. From this post and your post on Practical machinist it looks like you have a very nice collection of vintage machine tools.

Thanks again for posting all those great ideas.


Martin
  
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08-15-2019, 05:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by trentfromtoledo View Post
Awesome post! IMO, this is PRODUCTIVE TALK!! Love it.

cant wait to see your finished product Martin, these Bridge holders will be awesome!

Trent from Toledo
Hi Trent

Ssonerai looks like a fantastic woodworker and he's really generous to share his knowledge.

Dont hold your breath for the final product, it may take me a while to start the project, I've some other more boring stuff to do before but I want to gather as much information now, while the knowledge is available.

Martin

Last edited by martin35; 08-15-2019 at 05:53 PM.
  
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Dimensions
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Dimensions - 08-15-2019, 05:47 PM

Guys

Here is a quick drawing with dimensions. I've only rough guessed the dimensions. Any contribution is welcome to put the right dimension on the drawings. Picture with tape measure is fine also

Thanks

Martin

bridgerack.pdf

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Last edited by martin35; 08-15-2019 at 05:50 PM.
  
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08-17-2019, 12:52 PM

Martin -
this is interesting enough i did some very preliminary tests.
You will need to specify a thickness.

What i suspected, and actually found to be a problem is bending 1/16" (.062") thick maple veneer over the 1" radius section. The pressure seems low enough, no scales used yet - but the veneer cracks or completely breaks.

In a complete supporting bundle with a pressure source that started on the apex and proceeded both directions, that thickness is do-able. But it requires good process and is not "automatic". (Some bundles might be fine, a few might have failures, due to the random nature of wood.) I have to confess that the only 1/16" scraps laying around here is BE, so marginally/possibly "unfair" test. However, BE at .048" thick bent fine. .055 was acceptable.

At this point, the total bundle thickness would start to define the number of layers (needs to be odd number) and the thicknesses. Not all layers have to be the same thickness, but it complicates strategy and inventory if they aren't. Thinking about it, i never saw other than the recent pix of the product you are contemplating making; however it was not at all unusual to use different thickness core veneers, and thinner face veneers. I don't find that an advantage for small batch production. The product won't look any different. But if you are hoping if fools the conservators, then you have to do similar lay-ups to what BBC did.

I'll get photos later or tomorrow.
OTOH I based my set ups on (guessed) 3/8" thick total part thickness.

smt
  
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08-17-2019, 03:11 PM

Martin,

I have a suggestion but it will prove to be labor intensive.

After you have built your mold forms, build a steam tank large enough to accommodate your veneers. If possible, drop back to a thinner veneer. Steam one veneer at a time and get it very flimsy and pliable. Put it in you press, clamp it, and let it dry. If you find out that you can do two at the time without damage to the veneer, that will speed the process. The dried veneers should almost hold their shape. After you amass the desired number, uniformly apply a thin, slow curing glue to one side of each dried veneer, mount appropriately in the press, and clamp. Don't use so much glue that it hydraulically forces separation between the layers. Allow the blank to cure completely in the mold press. Remove when dry and shape.

BOXCAR
  
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08-17-2019, 05:17 PM

Sorry, double post...

Last edited by martin35; 08-17-2019 at 05:23 PM.
  
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08-17-2019, 05:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssonerai View Post
Martin -
this is interesting enough i did some very preliminary tests.
You will need to specify a thickness.

What i suspected, and actually found to be a problem is bending 1/16" (.062") thick maple veneer over the 1" radius section. The pressure seems low enough, no scales used yet - but the veneer cracks or completely breaks.

In a complete supporting bundle with a pressure source that started on the apex and proceeded both directions, that thickness is do-able. But it requires good process and is not "automatic". (Some bundles might be fine, a few might have failures, due to the random nature of wood.) I have to confess that the only 1/16" scraps laying around here is BE, so marginally/possibly "unfair" test. However, BE at .048" thick bent fine. .055 was acceptable.

At this point, the total bundle thickness would start to define the number of layers (needs to be odd number) and the thicknesses. Not all layers have to be the same thickness, but it complicates strategy and inventory if they aren't. Thinking about it, i never saw other than the recent pix of the product you are contemplating making; however it was not at all unusual to use different thickness core veneers, and thinner face veneers. I don't find that an advantage for small batch production. The product won't look any different. But if you are hoping if fools the conservators, then you have to do similar lay-ups to what BBC did.

I'll get photos later or tomorrow.
OTOH I based my set ups on (guessed) 3/8" thick total part thickness.

smt
SMT you keep impressing me with your will and generosity. At the beginning I wa talking about 1/2 th. but I Thnik it's way too thick, I think 3/8 is probably plenty enough maybe even 5/16"th. may work. Excuse my ignorance but what is BE ? Theproduct I've posted here is also offered with 0.045" core sheet, I guess that the top layers may be planned down to about the same thickness for easier bending and it gives a total thickness of 5/16"

I also like Boxcar's idea. It makes me think about an intermediate solution. I agree that steam is probalby the best solution but I wonder if soaking the sheet in water to soften them up and as Boxcar suggest preforming them in the form and let them before to glue may work....

Thanks for everything guy.

Martin

Last edited by martin35; 08-17-2019 at 05:26 PM.
  
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08-17-2019, 05:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
Martin,

I have a suggestion but it will prove to be labor intensive.

After you have built your mold forms, build a steam tank large enough to accommodate your veneers. If possible, drop back to a thinner veneer. Steam one veneer at a time and get it very flimsy and pliable. Put it in you press, clamp it, and let it dry. If you find out that you can do two at the time without damage to the veneer, that will speed the process. The dried veneers should almost hold their shape. After you amass the desired number, uniformly apply a thin, slow curing glue to one side of each dried veneer, mount appropriately in the press, and clamp. Don't use so much glue that it hydraulically forces separation between the layers. Allow the blank to cure completely in the mold press. Remove when dry and shape.

BOXCAR
Thanks Boxcar

I think it's a great idea.

Martin
  
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08-17-2019, 05:34 PM

I also found that kit from a supplier in Montreal, looks similar to the other one. BTW if you have another material to suggest, I'm open to suggestion, I was looking at maple because it was easy to find and can make a strong assembly but it can be sothing else.

Thanks

Martin

https://www.langevinforest.com/en/skateboard-veneer-kit

Last edited by martin35; 08-17-2019 at 05:58 PM.
  
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08-17-2019, 05:42 PM

Maybe just a simple sheet of aluminium with the same finish as the corners could be nice ..


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