After 6 weeks (of a 10 week session), I am 2 - 3 and one of those wins was a forfeit.
I can't find any motivation to care about league this summer.
how are ya'll doing in league ?
- Thread starter lorider
- Start date
After 6 weeks (of a 10 week session), I am 2 - 3 and one of those wins was a forfeit.
I can't find any motivation to care about league this summer.
That's how I felt. Our summer session was 12 weeks and I ended up 4-2.
I'm actually not playing that badly, 2 of the 3 losses were hill-hill and the other was after 1.5 weeks of not playing while on vacation (and the match was still close.)
But, I had seriously considered not playing at all but decided that it would be good to get out of the house and play other people. Even if I don't care too much about the results, playing every week keeps me from getting lazy and complacent when practicing at home.
Since the point of the handicapped leagues is to try to give all the players about an equal chance of winning, seems like that is actually happening. I'd be suspitios of anyone that has a over 75% win ratio unless they were already maxed out in handicap and were just that much better than the rest.
It would seem that way, but the points are close now that the season has ended.
1st: 841
2nd: 737 (Our team)
3rd: 635
4th: 587
When the season started out, the first place team was ahead of us by 300 points. Then they started sandbagging. The last match I watched, was the last of the session. I watched their SL4 get out three racks in 4 innings total. Once the score was 28 to 12, he started shooting the cue ball into the nearest pocket. Our league operator does nothing to fix this.
Sigh.. that is why I can't stand most leagues. Especially if people are around players they know the skill off. If you play someone in a local tournament they play you even and shoot as good as you do, then you play them in league and magiclaly you are 2 games better than them LOL
There should be an over-ride that can be done when a known skill does not match the handicap. If the guy is clearly shooting better than he is ranked, just manually bump up his skill. The USAPL league I was in for years has done that, if we knew someone starting out was a known skill level, he would be put in at that level in matches, ignoring the "official" new player rank. So you don't have an A player starting at the level of a C player.
I ran into an issue like this a few weeks ago, a new TAP player played his first match and lost, got dropped to a 2. The guy was running 3-4 balls with making some nice shots to boot. A 2 would not be doing that, he should have been manually adjusted to his true skill. The whole room could see the guy was not a 2. I could have easily sandbagged my first match, lost with 2-3-4 innings per game and then would have started out as a 3 or a 2 and would have been weeks before I went up to my true skill level. Instead I played a 6 (of 7) and beat him in 4 innings in 3 games. I went to a 7.6 after my first match hehe.
I'm all for handicaps, as long as they are properly handled.
The tired old argument of "handicapped leagues are supposed to make everyone equal" just doesn't work.
The point of the handicap is to give the lesser player a better chance against the better player. There isn't any way to make everyone truly "equal".
People have different strengths and weaknesses in the game play, and have different styles of play that compliment their own strengths. Some people handle pressure better than others. Sometimes people simply play better, for any number of reasons.
I was 100℅ last session, but I had some good fortune too. I also played some lower level players that I could control the game better, despite the handicap. And some matches I played pretty well, too. There wasn't anything to be suspicious about. Two of us were 100℅, the other guy was an SL6 (who just went up to SL7) and he won Top Gun because he had a higher points per game average.
There were 5-6 others above 85℅. Out of about 100 total players, I think.
This session I lost two of my first three matches. Stuff happens. (Worked my way back to near 70℅ again.)
Again, there ain't no "equal". There is a better chance for the lesser player, and that's enough to make it a more fair contest. (Mangled English, yikes)
If you win 100% of your matches, if you are not moved up in skill, then something is wrong with the handicap system hehe. Unless you are maxed out already. If you keep winning, the handicap is not high enough. I know people that can play as 7s but are 6s mostly because league play is on crappy tables that prevent them (and me) from playing as good as we can. Once you are maxed out, if you win 75% of the time, well that just means you are that good. If you are not maxed out and you win 75% of the time session after session that to me would raise a flag, unless I knew how that person played outside of league and would agree with the rating. I can't say that EVERY player with a low handicap and a high win % is a sandbagger or is playing the system (say by missing to raise the inning count but making sure there is no shot for the other guy) but in general would you not agree that a high win % would say "you need to move up a level in rank"?
Banks
Banned
There are very few people that could manage a really high winning record consistently without sandbagging. Taking a look at how the wins happened is very important as well. Winning by an opponent's early 8 or scratch on the 8, games that take 8 turns a piece, etc. Justadub was saying that he ran 100% for that season. It certainly isn't impossible, but if you asked him his overall win %, I guarantee you it won't be anywhere close to 100%. Spimp has a pretty nice win %, I think somewhere in the high 70's? Also, if you think somebody can play as a 7, but can't play well on a beat up Valley, they're a very weak 7 or maybe an overrated 6. I personally like the handicaps and it makes you play well/hard or you risk giving away games that can easily come back to haunt you. 9b handicap is the better of the two, though it's more like a straight pool game. Of course, I suck at 9b, so maybe I'm just biased. :embarrassed2:
you say your lo does nothing about obvious sandbagging ?
gotta ask you a question here. after you observed this 4 obviously sandbagging did you or whoever filled out the score sheet report what you witnessed ? the lo may not be aware of it if people do not report it.
in our area there are forms you can fill out to report instances such as you describe. now our lo does not automatically raise some one just because some filed a report but if he gets reports from 2 or 3 teams he knows something is going on and he checks into it.
the last time i filled out a report my lo mentioned to me i was the 3rd person to write this particular player up. i dont know what transpired between the lo and this player but i do know 2 weeks later this player was no longer playing in apa.
if you do not have access to these forms you can write the info in the comment section of your score sheet. our lo says if you do not have room on the front for all the info to use the back of the score sheet.
i dont fill out one very often because i know people have good and bad nights. i do how ever fill out one when i see obvious signs of running up innings such as intentional scratching or just banging balls.
this leads to another pet peeve of mine....proper score keeping. most people dont seem to know what a saftey is or the score keeper is busy yakking and not watching the game and failing to mark obvious safties. proper score keeping helps ensure proper handicaps.
The definition of defensive shot for the propose of apa score keeping is any shot not intended to pocket a ball. Defensive shots are subtracted from that players innings. His SL is based on innings. If you have under ranked players in your devision its because of inaccurate score keeping. Record all innings and all safeties and the handicap will take care of it.
By the way my team won the season last night 1st place 2 seasons in a row.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
By the way my team won the season last night 1st place 2 seasons in a row.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Just finished UPA 8B tonight, our 3rd week this session. We won 3 of 5 matches, with 50 points on the line. We got 21 points, they got 29. WTF?
I'm ranked an 8 and drilled a 4 (I had to win 5 of 6 games or lose). I got 7 points, he got 3. WTF? Same thing with our 7 and our 5 going against lesser ranked, they could only get 7 of 10 points. WTF?
:angry:
I'm ranked an 8 and drilled a 4 (I had to win 5 of 6 games or lose). I got 7 points, he got 3. WTF? Same thing with our 7 and our 5 going against lesser ranked, they could only get 7 of 10 points. WTF?
:angry:
i don't know what to tell you as i am not familiar with upa at all....matter of fact i have never heard of that league before joining this forum.
as for me..... i chose to play my apa league tonight instead of my money league.
i faced a 6 and won 4-0.
well actually it ain't new....just to me.
ever notice how some times you play great when you use a new stick? hope the new don't wear off this one.
to coin a phrase from the wfs section...this moochie i just bought shoots lights out .
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i don't know what to tell you as i am not familiar with upa at all....matter of fact i have never heard of that league before joining this forum.
as for me..... i chose to play my apa league tonight instead of my money league.
i faced a 6 and won 4-0.
well actually it ain't new....just to me.
ever notice how some times you play great when you use a new stick? hope the new don't wear off this one.
to coin a phrase from the wfs section...this moochie i just bought shoots lights out .
UPA has this "chart" that assigns how each match's 10 points are awarded. when 2 lower ranked players match up - winner gets 10. When higher ranked players play higher ranks, winner gets 10. BUT, when a high ranked player plays a few ranks below, they can't win 10. Unless it's against a 2 rank. Huh?
My beef... I most often have to go to 5 before my opponent goes to 2. And I get 7 points to their 3 (just cause they're there?). I've played 3 matches this session and won 15 of 17 racks. I acquired 21 points to their 9. BS!
But we at least play on 9'ers and don't have to travel. It's not all bad. In our prior sessions we've finished 1st, 2nd and 3rd (only @ 10 teams/session). I've helped fill my team's attrition thru AZB. :thumbup:
ya'll ought to drop that league and join napa. get with pinky ...i gave her the info.
well.... they give loser's points also :embarrassed2:
lemme see if i can remember how the points go..with the paper less system it automatically totals it and i never look at it.
if you win by shut out you get 20 points and your opponent gets 1
if you win the match and your opponent gets on the hill you get 14 and your opponent gets 3
you also get points for b&r's, rackless, 8,9 or 10 on the break. or shut outs
lets say you win a match 5-0. with 2 b&r's and 1 8 on the break.
20+1+1+1+1 you get 24 points and your opponent gets1
the lowest handicap i have seen is a 10 and i don't know how high they go. i think the highest we have in our area is a 115. i know jason kirkwood is a 152.
i have not looked at the race matrix lately but i think the races go all the way up to 10-2 depending on your handicap.
to me napa combines the best of what bcapl and apa has to offer.
call your shot...open break...shoot from the kitchen f your opponent scratches on the break...jump cue allowed.... scratch on the 8 is not a loss if the 8 does not fall...8 on the break is a win....i believe 10 on the break is spotted mite be wrong about that though. .... laggers choice...which means who ever wins the lag gets to choose whether to play 8,9 or 10 ball and the opponent gets to break 1st.
not only do you have strategy matching up opponents due to their handicap but you have strategy choosing what game to play.
depending on each players handicap you may have to choose the following.
8 ball 6-4 race
9 ball 5-4 race
10 ball 4-6 race
a lot of strategy goes on deciding which game to play according to those races.
and last but not least there are no team handicap limits.
i forgot a couple of things kool kat.
no yearly membership fee
cash pay out at the end of session
captains are automatically eligible for nationals....this is the only down side so far...wish they would get their shit together on this but being a fairly new league i guess its some what understandable they will have some growing pains.
as with any league ..your experience will depend on how well your lo runs his area.
no yearly membership fee
cash pay out at the end of session
captains are automatically eligible for nationals....this is the only down side so far...wish they would get their shit together on this but being a fairly new league i guess its some what understandable they will have some growing pains.
as with any league ..your experience will depend on how well your lo runs his area.
Thanks lorider! I just now googled "napa pool league", found its site, didn't dig into it much, but did see there may be a league in my county, but I need to email someone (Mike Mitchell?) to determine its viability here. I don't believe there's a league close enuf to attract my attn from the heresay...
But I 1st need some sleep before work at 10 am as Pink one been gettin frisky while her female 800 year old f'g poodle been piddling and poodling at the bed footrail. I gotta teach 'em both how to do a spotshot.
KK9 --> prefers pussy, kats
Yessir, this is the third time, this session, that we have filled out the two pages of bologna. Our LO has told me that he records all of it, but I have yet to see anything actually being implemented. I've filled out the paperwork about a player that was wanting to get physical with our team and the LO told me he can't do anything unless they start throwing punches... Professionalism is rare in the pool world.
Just curious why captains getting a free pass to nationals is so bad? (asks the captain that went to Nationals because he was a captain.
)Just curious why captains getting a free pass to nationals is so bad? (asks the captain that went to Nationals because he was a captain.
oh no krupa i did not mean captains going was bad. :embarrassed2:
i meant the nationals itself was the one negative thing i can say about napa.
you know the problems with low turnout, low pay out , confusion over whether valleys or diamonds etc.
coming from a captain who went to nashville and the southern classic.:thumbup:
i did not go to atlanta due to a conflict with my apa ltc.