G10 break cue - change to leather?

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pongohops

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just wondering if anyone else went from a G10 to leather on their break cue?

I finally got ahold of a Tony Layne j/b not long ago. The cue itself is beautiful and you couldn't ask for better quality or finish. Jumping is great, but as far breaking goes I'm not a fan. Yeah it explodes the rack, but any english whatsoever on the cue is practically impossible. I'm finding it very hard to control or 'drop' the cue ball on the break and as far as doing a second ball back break in 8-ball with low l/r you might as well forget it. Put it this way... it is rare I want to hit dead center on my break and that seems to be the only way you can break with this cue. I know I can slow my break down, but that still doesn't solve the fact english is no go.

So, I am wondering if putting a regular old leather tip on the shaft would make a difference, or even then, there would still be issues because of the stiff dymondwood shaft.

I have some matching charcoal dymondwood stock I was able to source by a small miracle (no, I won't sell it) and could have another shaft made and/or another entire cue or two. Keep the G10 shaft for jumping and have another with leather for breaking. Before I go this route I wanted to see if anyone else did this and if it's even worth trying or the result will be similar.

Anyone?
 
B

Breakhuizen

Registered
I put a Samsara on my BK2.
It has a lot more control now. Even on hard breaks.
Control wasn't that bad to begin with though. But maybe that is because of the LD-shaft.
Jumping will probably be a bit more difficult.
But that is why I have a separate Jumper☺
 
C

Cross

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
While I am waiting for my hammerhead tips and gator tips, I installed a white diamond on my Tony Layne and it has significantly improved the feel when I break.


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P

pongohops

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cross said:
While I am waiting for my hammerhead tips and gator tips, I installed a white diamond on my Tony Layne and it has significantly improved the feel when I break.


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Click to expand...

What exactly do you mean by feel here? All I am really concerned about is being able to put english on the cue ball if I want to for breaks. For example, a side table break in 8 ball and hitting the second ball back with low left/or right depending on the side. Or putting some left/right on a side table 9-ball break so it holds off the side rail. Or even just a little low head on. These are shots I just cannot do with this shaft/tip combo.
 
S

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Perhaps not...but your understanding of some pool physics here is lacking. Putting any kind of spin on the CB for the break shot should only be done to control what the CB does after contacting a rail. You cannot transfer spin through the rack (although you can create some throw effect). A dead square hit on the head ball, with NO spin on the CB results in the best contact with the rack, and the best potential to get a full transfer of speed and energy from the CB into the rack. That means after contact there is no spin on the CB. The best break is a high speed stopshot. This is regardless of what kind of tip you play/break with.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

pongohops said:
Hopefully that is a joke or you have never used a g-10 tip with any sort of english. There is no stroke problem over here sir.
Click to expand...
 
C

Cross

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
pongohops said:
What exactly do you mean by feel here? All I am really concerned about is being able to put english on the cue ball if I want to for breaks. For example, a side table break in 8 ball and hitting the second ball back with low left/or right depending on the side. Or putting some left/right on a side table 9-ball break so it holds off the side rail. Or even just a little low head on. These are shots I just cannot do with this shaft/tip combo.
Click to expand...

I mean I now feel something when I break. When I used the g10 ferrule i hardly feel anything when I strike the cue ball


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Kim Bye

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Scott is completely right. But I get what you say about G10 beeing a less than desirable tip material.
The sound is like glass shattering and the feedback is very harsh.
For a G10 tip to have good contact with the CB and to give you some margin of error, make sure the curve of the tip is much flatter than on a playing tip.
I feel that Taom is the best compromise out there, it's hard, yet has enough grip to work fine with a cut break if that's something you use alot.
 
P

pongohops

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Perhaps not...but your understanding of some pool physics here is lacking. Putting any kind of spin on the CB for the break shot should only be done to control what the CB does after contacting a rail. You cannot transfer spin through the rack (although you can create some throw effect). A dead square hit on the head ball, with NO spin on the CB results in the best contact with the rack, and the best potential to get a full transfer of speed and energy from the CB into the rack. That means after contact there is no spin on the CB. The best break is a high speed stopshot. This is regardless of what kind of tip you play/break with.
Click to expand...

Haha. So I’m being corrected on something I never said and has nothing to do with the original post. This forum gets better all the time.

Lets make things clear for everyone. I want to put english on my cue ball with this cue and tip. This combo is not conducive to that. Has anyone changed the tip with better results?


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SC02GTP

SC02GTP

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have had good luck with both leather and phenolic tips. I use a White Diamond now and I am happy with it for now. I use center low on the break and have not had any issues with control. I am getting the 8 ball closer to the opposite side from which I break more consistently using a 2nd ball break.

Leather does have a more recognizable feel than does phenolic. I believe that the synthetic tips do outperform the leather tips on break cues as far as breaking the rack open and pocketing balls. My average number of balls jumped up after I switched to phenolic.

It is harder for me to control the cue ball on the break with the phenolic tip or at least it was in the beginning. I kept practicing the break with the new tip and I feel I am hitting the rack as hard as I have ever have and over half of the time, I get shape on the next ball.

If you want to try a good leather break tip, have your local cue repair guy soak the sides of a good Triangle tip with super glue. It will be has hard at wood pecker lips and offer good grip. It is something to play around with until you get what works for you.

I think personally, you should just keep practicing with the existing tip and figure out how to make it work for you. I only say this because it helped me to improve on my break.
 
Shawn Armstrong

Shawn Armstrong

AZB deceased - stopped posting 5/13/2022
Silver Member
Kim Bye said:
Scott is completely right. But I get what you say about G10 beeing a less than desirable tip material.
The sound is like glass shattering and the feedback is very harsh.
For a G10 tip to have good contact with the CB and to give you some margin of error, make sure the curve of the tip is much flatter than on a playing tip.
I feel that Taom is the best compromise out there, it's hard, yet has enough grip to work fine with a cut break if that's something you use alot.
Click to expand...

Scott isn’t completely right. If you break with a dead centre hit cue ball with no spin, your cueball gets kicked to the back rail from hitting a mass that’s 9 to 15 times heavier than itself. You need to apply some slight topspin to the cueball for it to end up in the centre of the table. I’ll give up a little bit of speed in order to have my cueball in the middle of the table any day of the week. If a dead flat hit was the desired intent, a break cue would have a perfectly flat tip.
 
P

pongohops

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Guys, I really didn't want to turn this into a break shot technique / physics thread haha. I think we can agree this post would never end and as there are many differing opinions there.

Maybe if I explain this a little different? I am finding it hard, very hard, to use english on my break shot with this tip/shaft combo. I want to be clear that I DO want to put english on the cue ball - this has nothing to do with shooting off line with a poor stroke - I am purposely doing this. Reason for wanting to do this varies, but it all comes down to the action of the cue ball off the side rail for me (Scott mentioned this earlier), habit, and personal preference I guess. I rarely want to hit center ball and head on the head ball (that is just my personal preference even though that might be considered the 'best' break). Even on a nine ball break say a diamond in from the side I will use english and hit the head ball a tad off center for two reasons : I feel a little bit of throw is imparted into the rack from the english (could just be in my head or maybe not, Scott touched on this a bit) and for cue ball position coming off the rail.

Okay, so we got that cleared up... the english using this shaft/tip combo... I don't like it and want to improve or change that. I feel like when trying to use english and a powerful stroke with this that the tip/shaft wants to 'slide past' the cue ball rather than the ball moving and the shaft getting out of the way. It's like the tip is too smooth and the two surfaces slide on contact rather than transferring the energy. I don't know how else to describe it. If someone feels the need to get into the physics of that feel free as I don't care to.

So, if anyone kind of knows what I am talking about and had a similar experience... did changing out the G10 for something else help you out? Hammerhead, white diamond, and a few others have been mentioned so far. Honestly, I wouldn't mind going to a med/hard leather as I've never had a problem with it in the past, but again, being new to dymondwood shafts I don't know if that would help in the english department or not due to how stiff the shaft is.
 
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Shawn Armstrong

Shawn Armstrong

AZB deceased - stopped posting 5/13/2022
Silver Member
pongohops said:
Guys, I really didn't want to turn this into a break shot technique / physics thread haha. I think we can agree this post would never end and as there are many differing opinions there.

Maybe if I explain this a little different? I am finding it hard, very hard, to use english on my break shot with this tip/shaft combo. I want to be clear that I DO want to put english on the cue ball - this has nothing to do with shooting off line with a poor stroke - I am purposely doing this. Reason for wanting to do this varies, but it all comes down to the action of the cue ball off the side rail for me (Scott mentioned this earlier), habit, and personal preference I guess. I rarely want to hit center ball and head on the head ball (that is just my personal preference even though that might be considered the 'best' break). Even on a nine ball break say a diamond in from the side I will use english and hit the head ball a tad off center for two reasons : I feel a little bit of throw is imparted into the rack from the english (could just be in my head or maybe not, Scott touched on this a bit) and for cue ball position coming off the rail.

Okay, so we got that cleared up... the english using this shaft/tip combo... I don't like it and want to improve or change that. I feel like when trying to use english and a powerful stroke with this that the tip/shaft wants to 'slide past' the cue ball rather than the ball moving and the shaft getting out of the way. It's like the tip is too smooth and the two surfaces slide on contact rather than transferring the energy. I don't know how else to describe it. If someone feels the need to get into the physics of that feel free as I don't care to.

So, if anyone kind of knows what I am talking about and had a similar experience... did changing out the G10 for something else help you out? Hammerhead, white diamond, and a few others have been mentioned so far. Honestly, I wouldn't mind going to a med/hard leather as I've never had a problem with it in the past, but again, being new to dymondwood shafts I don't know if that would help in the english department or not due to how stiff the shaft is.
Click to expand...

Ditch the G10 tip. Go with a Samsara, or a Gator tip from Andy Gilbert. Or a water buffalo tip.
 
captainjko

captainjko

Kirk
Silver Member
I was using a Cyborg tip ( G-10 type) and changed to a Gator leather tip... Love it and can jump with full cue
 
simco

simco

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I had a break cue with a g10 ferrule/tip setup,faced it flat and added a white diamond
tip.I liked it,more control,still had great energy transfer
 
P

pongohops

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Going to give the Gator a try as that is more in line with my original thought (back to leather for breaking).

Thanks for all the opinions and experiences that were shared.
 
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