New Mike Massey technique

oldschool1478

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I want to see an overhead video in super slow-mo.
Mikes 1/16th to 1/8th inch (@ 4 minutes in) is clearly 5/16ths to 3/8ths inch.
Good thing he's not a carpenter.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
There are lots of other techniques for close ball shots. The best game to study the problem with is carom billiards (and not 3-cushion) where the top players have been routinely doing what Massey demonstrates for a century or so and without the side-arm change. Watch videos of Frederic Caudron (and others) playing balkline.

For more power on close shots, I prefer the "move your grip way, way forward" technique.

Willie Hoppe taught the "slap the stick into your (gripping) palm" technique.

For some shots you can use the "smash your knuckles into the rail" technique which is not as painful as it sounds. Willie Joplin had it in a set of proposition shots and I'm told it was a favorite of Luther Lassiter.

I think Massey's technique is interesting, and maybe it will help players who have full follow though too ingrained into their mechanics, but I think it is not the best way to play these shots.
 

briankenobi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We do these types of strokes in artistic pool, specifically a 2mm draw shot. The OB is 2mm from the QB and shoot level cue and draw the ball without foul. How it works is you use an extremely loose grip on the cue and aim so far to the right that the cue stick deflects all off the cue ball. This way there is no push nor double hit. The shot has been shot on super slow mo and determine to not be a foul. It is tough to pull off but pretty when it is.
 

Duane Remick

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
There are lots of other techniques for close ball shots. The best game to study the problem with is carom billiards (and not 3-cushion) where the top players have been routinely doing what Massey demonstrates for a century or so and without the side-arm change. Watch videos of Frederic Caudron (and others) playing balkline.

For more power on close shots, I prefer the "move your grip way, way forward" technique.

Willie Hoppe taught the "slap the stick into your (gripping) palm" technique.

For some shots you can use the "smash your knuckles into the rail" technique which is not as painful as it sounds. Willie Joplin had it in a set of proposition shots and I'm told it was a favorite of Luther Lassiter.

I think Massey's technique is interesting, and maybe it will help players who have full follow though too ingrained into their mechanics, but I think it is not the best way to play these shots.

" I'm really fond of
"breaking my cue over my opponent's head " If he starts winning technique "
:grin-square::grin-square::grin-square: ....
Just kidding, SIR,
I know the gentlemen you listed here were SOME OF THE VERY BEST :wink:
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
We do these types of strokes in artistic pool, specifically a 2mm draw shot. The OB is 2mm from the QB and shoot level cue and draw the ball without foul. How it works is you use an extremely loose grip on the cue and aim so far to the right that the cue stick deflects all off the cue ball. This way there is no push nor double hit. The shot has been shot on super slow mo and determine to not be a foul. It is tough to pull off but pretty when it is.
I think that's called a fouette ("fwetay") stroke. I think it was Bob Jewett who posted about it here a few times.

Almost an intentional miscue, which is a foul, so beware.

pj
chgo
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
There are lots of other techniques for close ball shots. The best game to study the problem with is carom billiards (and not 3-cushion) where the top players have been routinely doing what Massey demonstrates for a century or so and without the side-arm change. Watch videos of Frederic Caudron (and others) playing balkline.

For more power on close shots, I prefer the "move your grip way, way forward" technique.

Willie Hoppe taught the "slap the stick into your (gripping) palm" technique.

For some shots you can use the "smash your knuckles into the rail" technique which is not as painful as it sounds. Willie Joplin had it in a set of proposition shots and I'm told it was a favorite of Luther Lassiter.

I think Massey's technique is interesting, and maybe it will help players who have full follow though too ingrained into their mechanics, but I think it is not the best way to play these shots.
Here are video demos of four useful techniques from the double-hit detection and avoidance resource page, starring someone you might recognize:

NV B.49 - Using your knuckles to prevent a double hit and stop the cue ball, with Bob Jewett
NV B.50 - Using your knuckles to prevent a double hit and get follow, with Bob Jewett
NV B.51 - Using your natural forward stroke limit to prevent a double hit and get draw, with Bob Jewett
NV B.52 - Using a fouetté shot to prevent a double hit, with Bob Jewett

Enjoy,
Dave
 

oldschool1478

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"Willie Hoppe taught the "slap the stick into your (gripping) palm" technique".

Just tried this and it works great! Was able to follow or draw. A nice new tool in my box.
 

oldschool1478

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What's it mean?

pj
chgo

What I did was hold the cue loosely about one inch away from my palm with a sort of wrist forward attitude and then using fingers only, snap them up toward my palm.
I couldn't get much distance at first but with a little more practice, was able to sink a table length shot. I set up with the tip very close to the cue ball, and drew back with fingers only, about 1-3/4 inch before the snap.
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
What I did was hold the cue loosely about one inch away from my palm with a sort of wrist forward attitude and then using fingers only, snap them up toward my palm.
I couldn't get much distance at first but with a little more practice, was able to sink a table length shot. I set up with the tip very close to the cue ball, and drew back with fingers only, about 1-3/4 inch before the snap.
Thanks - I'll try this.

pj
chgo
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... the top players have been routinely doing what Massey demonstrates for a century or so and without the side-arm change. Watch videos of Frederic Caudron (and others) playing balkline.... .
Here is a video of Caudron playing balkline. Note how accurate his speed is on draw shots even when the cue ball is very close to the object ball. The rules of the game are that you have to make your cue ball hit both other balls and if the two object balls are in the same zone, one of them must be driven out. It is this carom game that Efren plays and probably why he got so good so quickly at one pocket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ5lwkVoNB8

The word "duh dahn" that Caudron keeps saying means "within" one of the zones and on the next shot one ball must be driven out (to usually return close by for an easy shot).
 

erriep

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think that's called a fouette ("fwetay") stroke. I think it was Bob Jewett who posted about it here a few times.

Almost an intentional miscue, which is a foul, so beware.

pj
chgo

indeed, that's a 'fouetté' shot (french word , means 'whipped' , 'to whip') .

as for example, see the 1st shot at the beginning of this vid (NB : the 2d shot being a fouetté too, but a 'fouette-follow') :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLL8P1fe-dc
 
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mr3cushion

Regestered User
Silver Member
Billiard players have been using this method for over a 100 years! Nothing new! Also, the French have a word for the opposite stroke, it's called, 'Le cu sec.' It means a, dry stroke! Just moving the arm.

Here's a video I shot in 1983, there are several draw & follow shots in it where the CB & OB are less than 1/2" apart!

ALL executed without any foul!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQvxNUWPjBg
 
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jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Billiard players have been using this method for over a 100 years! Nothing new! Also, the French have a word for the opposite stroke, it's called, 'Le cu sec.' It means a, dry stroke! Just moving the arm.

Here's a video I shot in 1983, there are several draw & follow shots in it where the CB & OB are less than 1/2" apart!

ALL executed without any foul!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQvxNUWPjBg

Great video Billy. Some of the modern day players would do well to watch it! :thumbup:
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It really isn't necessary to go all the way with this and do that sidearm approach.
A little experimenting with the usual vertical hand position and gripping the cue with only the tips of the thumb and forefinger and continuing with the "flick" of the wrist only will accomplish the job.
That bridge being tight and closed for the high ball is critical though.
Ole "Tarzan" did good with this one.
Thank you, M.M....I see you can still shoot "the eyes right off them balls".
:thumbup:
 
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