Jay, the short answer is - DON'T DO IT !!
You might want to start by reviewing what happened to Ernie - AKA - Gina Cue.
I doubt he wants to conspire with ivory smugglers, so the Ginacue precedent has little probative value.
Jay, the short answer is - DON'T DO IT !!
You might want to start by reviewing what happened to Ernie - AKA - Gina Cue.
I am selling a JW cue that has ivory diamonds, joint and ferrules (it's all pre-ban ivory). Will I have a problem shipping this cue out of California and what is the best carrier to do this with? What about shipping overseas? Can I use USPS Priority Mail or will there be a problem? Any help with this is greatly appreciated. It's a valuable cue and I don't want to lose it.
Ernie was an international viiolation....everyone knows domestic is different
I live in CA and still have close communications with CA Fish & Wildlife
on trying to obtain the 1st CITES exemption issued for a pool cue in CA.
This is Jay's money and butt at risk....if you want to do the sale legally, there
is only one solitary way. There isn't any other option that is "risk free" and Jay
can do as he likes but I'm giving him factual information, not an opinion as so
many others have posted. This is Jay's decision but at least base it upon facts.
Jay, when you are physically outside the geographical boundaries of California,
such as being across the state line in Nevada, you can transact business. But
the transaction has to be fully consummated outside of California, not just the
shipment of the cue to the buyer. You cannot receive any payment for the cue
while you are in California either. If you surrender the cue to the buyer or ship
it, as long as you are outside California, you are safe and in compliance. The
buyer's payment may be deposited by you in your bank account as long as the
actual payment was not received within the jurisdiction of California. It is viewed
to be a trailing event to a legally enacted sale by CA Fish & Wildlife so it is not in
dispute or question. Even if you never deposited the payment, the buyer would still
legally own the cue so CA Fish & Wildlife isn'tconcerned about payments outside CA.
The Federal law is distinctly different and has exemptions that do not exist within the
California ivory ban. Jay, whatever you decide, just be deliberate and careful and do
not openly discuss this topic on this Forum or anywhere else when you intend to sell
a cue containing any ivory and happen to reside in California......that's just my advice.
Matt B.
I am selling a JW cue that has ivory diamonds, joint and ferrules (it's all pre-ban ivory). Will I have a problem shipping this cue out of California and what is the best carrier to do this with? What about shipping overseas? Can I use USPS Priority Mail or will there be a problem? Any help with this is greatly appreciated. It's a valuable cue and I don't want to lose it.
Jay,
For sure I wouldn't send it overseas. There is some chance it will be confiscated if inspected.
There has been some relief for certain items as of 2016. There is a "de minimus" category exemption. Here is what that clause covers:
** To qualify for the de minimis exception, manufactured or handcrafted items must meet all of the following criteria:
(i) If the item is located within the United States, the ivory was imported into the United States prior to January 18, 1990, or was imported into the United States under a Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) pre-Convention certificate with no limitation on its commercial use;
(ii) If the item is located outside the United States, the ivory was removed from the wild prior to February 26, 1976;
(iii) The ivory is a fixed or integral component or components of a larger manufactured or handcrafted item and is not in its current form the primary source of the value of the item, that is, the ivory does not account for more than 50 percent of the value of the item;
(iv) The ivory is not raw;
(v) The manufactured or handcrafted item is not made wholly or primarily of ivory, that is, the
ivory component or components do not account for more than 50 percent of the item by
volume;
(vi) The total weight of the ivory component or components is less than 200 grams; and
(vii) The item was manufactured or handcrafted before the effective date of this rule.
Many older pool cues would fall into this category. This rule was initiated to protect items like guns with ivory handles and musical instruments, artifacts that are not exempt under the 100 year old antique clause. 200 grams is 7 ounces, and there is no way the ferrules, joint and thin inlays would come close to that.
More to follow in the next post.
That's funny because its not illegal in VaUsps just started using ivory sniffing dogs at our area plant. I wouldn't do it
I spent most of my life there in Kali moved out 5.5 years ago, it was the best thing I could have ever done, the state is even more messed up since I left, I would be surprised they have taxed or out lawed farts yet.
For item 1:
How is a pool banger such as us, that might have an ivory cue with 10 prior owners, supposed to get the document that proves its pre-ban?
For items 3 and 5: This means no ivory pool/snooker/carom balls can be sold. This means no pool cue replacement parts, such as ferrules, inlay material, joints, etc, can be sold.
For items 6: Carom ivory balls would be excluded, but not pool/snooker ivory balls.
Answers to number 1, and are my other interpretations correct?
Usps just started using ivory sniffing dogs at our area plant. I wouldn't do it
Thanks guys for all the good responses. I have a pretty good idea of how to consummate this sale now (if it happens). My preference is to deliver it by hand, possibly in Vegas and accept cash only. This has been a learning experience for me. I have several cues with "white" content, most of them very old (60's to 80's). I'm glad I asked on here. :wink:
So, to get this straight, California has a problem with ivory, but does not have a problem with urinating and defecating in public, ala San Francisco. Sounds like a mismatch of priorities.
All the best,
WW