Fused discs and playing pool

Cdryden said:

So I got back from the doctors visit today and had some bad news. He wants me to have my lower back fused, lumbar region, L5 L4 and possibly L3. He tells me I have severe arthritis and there is excess pressure being put on my spinal cord.
I am going to seek a 2nd opinion and I don't want to rush into anything even though my Dr. is suggesting that I get it done this month. (He said if it was up to him I'd get it done next week.)

So, who all here has had it done? What are your feelings about it? How long before you were back to shooting pool? Did you feel it was worth it?

I am not looking to replace my Dr. opinion with peoples views from here. I just want to talk with others who have been there and done that. It's a big decision for me and I would rather not rush into it.

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I had L5 /S1 fused, L4/L5 is bad also. I only had L5 /S1 done for several reasons, one it was work comp and second there is no Guarantee anything they do will stop the pain.
My doc said if you do L5/S1 you will probably need to do L4/L5 in 5 -8 years. Then another 5- 8 years you get to do l3/l4.. fusing 1 puts the pressure on the next one..
Like a zipper it just keeps moving up to the next one... I had mine fused Feb 2010 and have never been with out pain since 2009, sometimes worse than others but it alway there..
I do not know if I will ever have another done, I suppose if it is to the point where death is the only relief I would give it a try again.. I just hope it does not get there..
I have a cousin who has had 9 back operations on her back, # 10 they went in and burnt the nerves off to try to stop the pain, She said was better but still hurts..
From my research it is 50/50 as to wether it helps or not.. My Doctor had said 90-95%
success, I guess that depends on a lot of things.
Good luck with the decision I know it is a hard one to make, I wish you the best.

As for playing pool again, I am glad I am not a pro that never misses, because too much time on my feet fires it up.. (practice is short time) Playing where you get to sit once in a while helps.. also you will learn to break a lot softer, no putting your back into it..
Mark

back surgery

I had L4-L5 fused back in 86 when I was 39 yrs old. Had fought the pain for 6 months untill it was becoming unbearable. I had little choice but to get it taken care of. Surgery was a sucess. Now 67 and no recurring surgery since. I can shoot 4-5 hours at a time with no pain. These types of surgeries can go either way. I was one of the lucky ones. I have seen other persons have to go back for a second, third or even sometimes a fourth surgical procedure. If I dont work it too hard and act like Im 21 my back holds up pretty good. If I over do it my back will let me know. I then have to have light duty for about 2 weeks for it to heal back up and quit hurting. You are the only one who knows how much pain and discomfort you are feeling. In my case I could not get the knife fast enough. I wish you much success in your decision.

I had a spinal fusion 3 years ago, L4-5, S-1. Degenerative disc disease made two discs completely dissolve, 3 vertebra bone on bone, allowing the middle vertebrae to move into the spinal canal and sit on the cord for several years, pinching it like a balloon, unbelievable sciatic pain. Still have a few issues, but nothing like it was, would do it again in a heartbeat. Get the best surgeon available, good luck.

pool101 said:

I had L5 /S1 fused, L4/L5 is bad also. I only had L5 /S1 done for several reasons, one it was work comp and second there is no Guarantee anything they do will stop the pain.
My doc said if you do L5/S1 you will probably need to do L4/L5 in 5 -8 years. Then another 5- 8 years you get to do l3/l4.. fusing 1 puts the pressure on the next one..
Like a zipper it just keeps moving up to the next one... I had mine fused Feb 2010 and have never been with out pain since 2009, sometimes worse than others but it alway there..
I do not know if I will ever have another done, I suppose if it is to the point where death is the only relief I would give it a try again.. I just hope it does not get there..
I have a cousin who has had 9 back operations on her back, # 10 they went in and burnt the nerves off to try to stop the pain, She said was better but still hurts..
From my research it is 50/50 as to wether it helps or not.. My Doctor had said 90-95%
success, I guess that depends on a lot of things.
Mark

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I got the same problem, herniated disc at L5-S1, Spinal Stenosis, and another herniated disc at C4-C5. I was told in 1998 that I needed immediate surgery, fusion, on my neck because of pressure on my spinal cord, then a few years later I was told I needed lower back fusion. Depending on which Docs you talk to, some will say get surgery now or wait to get it done as long as you can. The best relief I got is from spinal epidurals, I get them in sets of 3 2 times a year. The first epidural did not help at all then several years later I got talked into getting them again and they helped a lot. I think it has much to do with the Doc administering the shots. I don't plan on getting lower back surgery anytime soon, the neck is a different story, most all I have talked to are better off for having neck surgery. The lower back is a whole different story, at best 50% are happy they had surgery, the other 50% wish they did not have surgery because they are worse off. Remember, fusion is permanent, once they do it there is no un-fusing your spine and you are stuck with your decision. Talk to many people as possible before making any choices. Good luck.

Ray, sounds like what I have been going thru for many years.

Doing Physio for 2 months at the moment. Fusion is not out of the question for myself in the near future either.

I have known a couple of people that had disc fusion. I doubt that will hamper your ability to play pool.

As for getting a second opinion from a Dr.

The last time I asked my Dr. for a second opinion, he said, "ok, yer ugly too".

I had surgery in 1999.......

My friends carried me into the hospital and I had surgery the next morning.

I was in terrible pain and had been like that for about a month but had finally lost the use of my left leg some. Could hardly lift it. It was so bad I had trouble even breathing.

It was a no brainer for me to have the surgery. It was almost a must.

The surgeon had talked about fusion, cage or just shaving down the herniated discs. There were 2 of them. L4 and L5. And he explained the problems if I got fused or got a cage put in.

I told him about the pool and if there was any way not to do the cage or fusion and just shave the discs down, I think he called it a lamidectemy, not sure.

He took out 13 bone fragments and only shaved down the discs. No cage or fusion. He said it was a borderline decision and our conversation helped him make the call. My back hurt real bad for about 3 months and then just bad for about 3 years.

Since then I have to be real careful about anything I lift or I will be out of commission for about 3 days. But not bad like it used to get. Just sore and telling me not to bend over too much for awhile.

I had nothing fused but it was still tough and still is but it sure is better than before.

Any lower back surgery is tough.

I will be going in for surgery again myself in the near future. Stenosis just below my neck. After my last car accident, hit from behind, the neck is pretty bad. This surgery is usually pretty successful. I did some checking with players that have had this done and they are so much better almost immediately.

Looking forward to it.

Good Luck there with your surgery if you have it.

You will probably here this to no end, but get 2nd and 3rd opinions and if you need surgery, do heavy research on the doctor. They are not all the same (compare it to different pool players)

I have used this site before for other doctors http://www.castleconnolly.com/membership/index.cfm.

It gives the top doctors by specialty and location as voted by their peers. Now, how much validness and accuracy it has, i really don't know.

But my theory it is still better than nothing.

Maybe there is other sites like this as well?

Blue Hog ridr said:

Ray, sounds like what I have been going thru for many years.

Doing Physio for 2 months at the moment. Fusion is not out of the question for myself in the near future either.

I have known a couple of people that had disc fusion. I doubt that will hamper your ability to play pool.

As for getting a second opinion from a Dr.

The last time I asked my Dr. for a second opinion, he said, "ok, yer ugly too".

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You need a third opinion, imo, lol. Don't wait a long time, Terry. The biggest residual issue I have now is that some of the nerves in my legs were killed, dead, gone, due to the sciatic pinch for such a long time before correction. I have areas of deadness and numbness in both legs, toes curl and cramp at weird times, and pretty constant lower back pain, scale around a 6. Doesn't hamper my game at all, though, bending at the waist is no stressor.

Cdryden - I've been dealing with this condition since accident bout year and a half ago. The pain is very bad and pretty much constant. Involved is my L4/L5 - S1/S2 as well as some issues in the neck. I have done all the treatments and therapies trying to avoid surgery but at this point have exhausted all options with no success. I rarely play anymore and if I do I pay for it for up to a week. My experience with the fusions have been the vast majority of people I've known that have had it done are not happy with it and the vast majority always have to get multiple surgeries in the future. My drs have presented me with two options, one being a multi level fusion and the other being artificial disc replacement. Im told im a good candidate for the replacement because I am still relatively young. (35) Its somewhat new to the states but have been done in Europe for quite some time. I've never really heard anything but bad about back fusions so im trying to avoid at all costs. I haven't heard them brought up in this thread and have no idea whether or not they would work in your case but id def take the time to explore. I feel ya brother so good luck.

Surgery or not you can help your back by bending your left knee. Looking at your picture, you stand with your feet too close and your knees straight thereby stretching your Hamstrings and putting undue pressure in the back.

JohnPT said:

Surgery or not you can help your back by bending your left knee. Looking at your picture, you stand with your feet too close and your knees straight thereby stretching your Hamstrings and putting undue pressure in the back.

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Chris, I couldn't agree with this statement more. It may not be orthodox, bend both legs in the stance. You will get use to it. Man, didn't know you had issues with your back, sorry to hear that. See ya on the 15th.

John

BmoreMoney said:

Cdryden - I've been dealing with this condition since accident bout year and a half ago. The pain is very bad and pretty much constant. Involved is my L4/L5 - S1/S2 as well as some issues in the neck. I have done all the treatments and therapies trying to avoid surgery but at this point have exhausted all options with no success. I rarely play anymore and if I do I pay for it for up to a week. My experience with the fusions have been the vast majority of people I've known that have had it done are not happy with it and the vast majority always have to get multiple surgeries in the future. My drs have presented me with two options, one being a multi level fusion and the other being artificial disc replacement. Im told im a good candidate for the replacement because I am still relatively young. (35) Its somewhat new to the states but have been done in Europe for quite some time. I've never really heard anything but bad about back fusions so im trying to avoid at all costs. I haven't heard them brought up in this thread and have no idea whether or not they would work in your case but id def take the time to explore. I feel ya brother so good luck.

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Just a heads up about the replacement, my doctor was trying to talk me into a replacement, the second and third doctors both said do not do it. They both said that while Europe has been doing it, no one has come up with a replacement that lasts. They said failure rate was high and that is why it has been slow to catch on in the US..
I am only passing on what I was told, I was interested in doing the replacement until I researched it a little more.
Mark

I had a broken neck in 1984, got a neck fusion in 1989 of C3-C4 . I can't look down a cue shaft like normal people do. Does it effect my pool playing ? I don't know, I started playing pool in 2003.
I have played against a very good player that played in an upright posture, due to a fused lower back from a car wreck . It is what you get used to or adapt to.

pool101 said:

Just a heads up about the replacement, my doctor was trying to talk me into a replacement, the second and third doctors both said do not do it. They both said that while Europe has been doing it, no one has come up with a replacement that lasts. They said failure rate was high and that is why it has been slow to catch on in the US..
I am only passing on what I was told, I was interested in doing the replacement until I researched it a little more.
Mark

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A few years ago I asked my Orthopedic Surgeon about disc replacement, I was told that is permanent just like fusion, I dont understand why though. Maybe its different now.

fastone371 said:

A few years ago I asked my Orthopedic Surgeon about disc replacement, I was told that is permanent just like fusion, I dont understand why though. Maybe its different now.

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The back doc that wanted to do the implant said they were fine, the Ortopedic doc and the work comp doc both said not to do it. The orthopedic said the joints come apart, he is the one who said that no one has a replacement that lasts..
I just figured I would rather fuse one and have 1 surgery rather than have something fail and have to do a second.
Another thing I did was had them go in throught the front to do the L5/S1, he could do it either from the front or the rear, from the rear they cut the back muscle length wise, spread it and do the disc. From the front they had to have an internest to move stuff out the way, but they did not cut the muscle and I have no scar tissue in my back to cause issues. If they go in the from the back there is always the scar tissue issue down the road... From the front has it's own issues also..
If they are doing L4/L5 I think they have to go throught the back. Like I said in my first post I still have pain between 3-6 on a scale of 10.
It does get higher if I over do it, then I need to rest to recover.
I do not know if I made the right choices but I like to think I did based on what I had for info. Good Luck, I know it is a confusing time, Just get as much info as you can and get a good doc that you are comfortable with and follow his directions.
Mark

post surgery......working out for life is key, even more important than for those with good health, and not an entirely bad news scenario neither

get into a serious gym routine...forever........baby steps at first after rehab, lots of stretching and bodyweight exercies, combine later with a good mix of low impact cardio and then finally add light weights with high reps

keep your weight as trim as possible and a strong stomach

and wear a weight belt to support your back during exercise........forever

your back will never truly be the same unless you won the gene lotto like adrian peterson, your stance and game will need to be adjusted and it will drop half a notch but if you can be mobile and pain free...walk...and enjoy life, then you'll still always enjoy pool