Bad Problem with John Showman, (Cue Stolen)

tinh339

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was the buyer for this cue few month back. I contacted Mike and he told me that he would get it back soon from John. Obviously Mike never did and I moved on bought another one. I also bought a brand one at Kenny show past week. I am still in market for more, But after this post. I might have a second thought. Good luck to you Mike, Hope every thing will work out for you.
Regard
Peter
 

Ken_4fun

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Another unflattering story about John came out a few years ago here, about how he had jerked around 'Ken_4fun', sitting on his deposit for a long time and producing squat. Ken posted a thread about his experience in 2013 and soon after, the mods here deleted it. But what happened then is what always seems to happen, the usual suspects tightened their circle of wagons to protect him as they often do with these 'anointed ones'. Then the customer is made out to be the bad guy. You see, the inner-core dare not speak out about such a cherished maker...because after all, they have their stuff on order they are getting from them.
:frown:

Thanks Sean. I think the AZ moderators who pulled my thread have some responsibility in this as well. I tried to warn others of the issues.

I will share that "Little Kenny" contacted me during my fiasco with John Showman and told me that he would buy my spot or give me my deposit as John was broke and couldn't return my money that I had given him 5-6 years ago. He was buddies with John Showman, so I assume that Little Kenny isn't too bright and I suspect he was being used by Showman.

Mike -

If you want me to fly down and make any statement, I will fly down on my dime and do whatever I could to help support.

I wish you the best my friend.

I wish you the best of rolls,

Ken
 
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Drawman623

Box Cue lover
Silver Member
I've read this thread and like many others, find it very unfortunate. I regard myself as a friend to John Showman and a believer in his work. Showman cues are among the finest the craft has to offer.

I have only owned 1 Showman cue which, ironically, I sold to fund a legal defense several years ago. At the time, John's cue was the only cue I owned that I knew I could sell on 24 hours notice and have a buyer for all the cash... I don't see this thread causing any damage to the existing market for John's cues or their value when offered for sale by their owners.

As for repairs, new orders and perhaps sourcing of materials, I am sure a thread like this will have a negative impact for John...and hopefully, a positive remedy for Mike the OP.

It seems impossible, thus pointless to "circle the wagons" and begin publishing positive opinions of Mr. Showman and his demonstrations of good integrity that have happened in the past. This thread has already made that approach sound naiive or ingenuine.

All I want to add to this discussion is about the aspect of motive for behavior. Some have compared John's actions to those who deliberately decieve for their own enrichment. Little more beyond calling him lazy has been offered to explain how he could fail to deliver after making promises. Having known John for a long time, I do not believe there is any malicious intent in his case.

When he makes a promise to a customer, I believe he intends to honor it. Mr. Showman may not be cut from the same moral cloth as the OP or NYC Dude...those posters speak to a level of consistency and integrity that would never come to a pass like this in their professional endeavors...but they are not John Showman.

Yes there are bums and con men out there...some, I believe, in cuemaking past and present. I had a Szamboti stolen by a prominent cuemaker...I know the OP's pain. And Cardiac Kid...man I can't even say a word about your situation with Stroud. Makes me sick inside to think about it. There are also people, however, who despite being well meaning, lack a level of control in their lives that is requisite to function in business. These unfortunate individuals may suffer from depression, addiction or mental disorder. Some endure and overcome, others adapt to it and take on far fewer obligations, and others are exposed and banished for their struggles. An artist can be masterful in his work and a trainwreck in life. This can be a function of who they are or the situation they are trapped in. Indeed one circumstance may drive the other.

John Showman is no less a man than me. I hope for his sake he faces this latest life challenge and uses this thread as opportunity to make meaningful changes. I for one am rooting for him.

It is the failure of a man to make excuse after excuse for his inappropriate decisions. It is the role of the legal system to resolve and assign accountability in such cases...but it is the role of each and every one of us to try to understand human behavior and to act with constructive compassion. If all we have left is the leverage of humiliation or legal remedy...even if we win, we lose.

I for one believe the cue collecting world will lose something very special if we go one without Showman cues. That said we might consider knocking on his door to help him rather than collect our cues and deposits. 7K is a lot of money to a person like me...but John, if you are listening or word gets to you...I'll remunerate Mike the $700 on your behalf if you mail him the cue. Don't wait and don't think it over...just do it. It may or may not stop a law suite but it is the right thing to do. Some of us know that is who you are.
 
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Ken_4fun

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've read this thread and like many others, find it very unfortunate. I regard myself as a friend to John Showman and a believer in his work. Showman cues are among the finest the craft has to offer.

I have only owned 1 Showman cue which, ironically, I sold to fund a legal defense several years ago. At the time, John's cue was the only cue I owned that I knew I could sell on 24 hours notice and have a buyer for all the cash... I don't see this thread causing any damage to the existing market for John's cues or their value when offered for sale by their owners.

As for repairs, new orders and perhaps sourcing of materials, I am sure a thread like this will have a negative impact for John...and hopefully, a positive remedy for Mike the OP.

It seems impossible, thus pointless to "circle the wagons" and begin publishing positive opinions of Mr. Showman and his demonstrations of good integrity that have happened in the past. This thread has already made that approach sound naiive or ingenuine.

All I want to add to this discussion is about the aspect of motive for behavior. Some have compared John's actions to those who deliberately decieve for their own enrichment. Little more beyond calling him lazy has been offered to explain how he could fail to deliver after making promises. Having known John for a long time, I do not believe there is any malicious intent in his case.

When he makes a promise to a customer, I believe he intends to honor it. Mr. Showman may not be cut from the same moral cloth as the OP or NYC Dude...those posters speak to a level of consistency and integrity that would never come to a pass like this in their professional endeavors...but they are not John Showman.

Yes there are bums and con men out there...some, I believe, in cuemaking past and present. I had a Szamboti stolen by a prominent cuemaker...I know the OP's pain. And Cardiac Kid...man I can't even say a word about your situation with Stroud. Makes me sick inside to think about it. There are also people, however, who despite being well meaning, lack a level of control in their lives that is requisite to function in business. These unfortunate individuals may suffer from depression, addiction or mental disorder. Some endure and overcome, others adapt to it and take on far fewer obligations, and others are exposed and banished for their struggles. An artist can be masterful in his work and a trainwreck in life. This can be a function of who they are or the situation they are trapped in. Indeed one circumstance may drive the other.

John Showman is no less a man than me. I hope for his sake he faces this latest life challenge and uses this thread as opportunity to make meaningful changes. I for one am rooting for him.

It is the failure of a man to make excuse after excuse for his inappropriate decisions. It is the role of the legal system to resolve and assign accountability in such cases...but it is the role of each and every one of us to try to understand human behavior and to act with constructive compassion. If all we have left is the leverage of humiliation or legal remedy...even if we win, we lose.

I for one believe the cue collecting world will lose something very special if we go one without Showman cues. That said we might consider knocking on his door to help him rather than collect our cues and deposits. 7K is a lot of money to a person like me...but John, if you are listening or word gets to you...I'll remunerate Mike the $700 on your behalf if you mail him the cue. Don't wait and don't think it over...just do it. It may or may not stop a law suite but it is the right thing to do. Some of us know that is who you are.

When I had my issue with John Showman I had literally 10 other guys PM me and email me telling me some of John's "practices" which was common for a lot of folks.

I understand that if you haven't had a problem, you wouldn't be aware, so I guess I can understand your naivety.

The issue with Showman isn't a mistake, and it isn't unique. This is standard operating procedure for Johnboy. :mad:

Ken
 

Quality Cues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was the buyer for this cue few month back. I contacted Mike and he told me that he would get it back soon from John. Obviously Mike never did and I moved on bought another one. I also bought a brand one at Kenny show past week. I am still in market for more, But after this post. I might have a second thought. Good luck to you Mike, Hope every thing will work out for you.
Regard
Peter

Hi Peter:

Thank you for posting to this thread. I hope that I get my cue back soon.

Best regards,

Mike
 

Quality Cues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've read this thread and like many others, find it very unfortunate. I regard myself as a friend to John Showman and a believer in his work. Showman cues are among the finest the craft has to offer.

I have only owned 1 Showman cue which, ironically, I sold to fund a legal defense several years ago. At the time, John's cue was the only cue I owned that I knew I could sell on 24 hours notice and have a buyer for all the cash... I don't see this thread causing any damage to the existing market for John's cues or their value when offered for sale by their owners.

As for repairs, new orders and perhaps sourcing of materials, I am sure a thread like this will have a negative impact for John...and hopefully, a positive remedy for Mike the OP.

It seems impossible, thus pointless to "circle the wagons" and begin publishing positive opinions of Mr. Showman and his demonstrations of good integrity that have happened in the past. This thread has already made that approach sound naiive or ingenuine.

All I want to add to this discussion is about the aspect of motive for behavior. Some have compared John's actions to those who deliberately decieve for their own enrichment. Little more beyond calling him lazy has been offered to explain how he could fail to deliver after making promises. Having known John for a long time, I do not believe there is any malicious intent in his case.

When he makes a promise to a customer, I believe he intends to honor it. Mr. Showman may not be cut from the same moral cloth as the OP or NYC Dude...those posters speak to a level of consistency and integrity that would never come to a pass like this in their professional endeavors...but they are not John Showman.

Yes there are bums and con men out there...some, I believe, in cuemaking past and present. I had a Szamboti stolen by a prominent cuemaker...I know the OP's pain. And Cardiac Kid...man I can't even say a word about your situation with Stroud. Makes me sick inside to think about it. There are also people, however, who despite being well meaning, lack a level of control in their lives that is requisite to function in business. These unfortunate individuals may suffer from depression, addiction or mental disorder. Some endure and overcome, others adapt to it and take on far fewer obligations, and others are exposed and banished for their struggles. An artist can be masterful in his work and a trainwreck in life. This can be a function of who they are or the situation they are trapped in. Indeed one circumstance may drive the other.

John Showman is no less a man than me. I hope for his sake he faces this latest life challenge and uses this thread as opportunity to make meaningful changes. I for one am rooting for him.

It is the failure of a man to make excuse after excuse for his inappropriate decisions. It is the role of the legal system to resolve and assign accountability in such cases...but it is the role of each and every one of us to try to understand human behavior and to act with constructive compassion. If all we have left is the leverage of humiliation or legal remedy...even if we win, we lose.

I for one believe the cue collecting world will lose something very special if we go one without Showman cues. That said we might consider knocking on his door to help him rather than collect our cues and deposits. 7K is a lot of money to a person like me...but John, if you are listening or word gets to you...I'll remunerate Mike the $700 on your behalf if you mail him the cue. Don't wait and don't think it over...just do it. It may or may not stop a law suite but it is the right thing to do. Some of us know that is who you are.

Hi Gian:

You made a very generous offer on Showman's behalf. If he does not want to finish the project, the least he could do is ship my cue back to me, which is easy enough to do and is the only right thing to do, even if he does not have the $700 to refund to me. If you have a way of contacting John, please do so. I want my cue back months ago. I'll let you know when I finally get it back, hopefully soon.

Best regards,

Mike
 

BmoreMoney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi Gian:

You made a very generous offer on Showman's behalf. If he does not want to finish the project, the least he could do is ship my cue back to me, which is easy enough to do and is the only right thing to do, even if he does not have the $700 to refund to me. If you have a way of contacting John, please do so. I want my cue back months ago. I'll let you know when I finally get it back, hopefully soon.

Best regards,

Mike

Are you concerned at all if he even still has the cue?
 

SpiderWeb

iisgone@yahoo.com
Silver Member
Hi Gian:

You made a very generous offer on Showman's behalf. If he does not want to finish the project, the least he could do is ship my cue back to me, which is easy enough to do and is the only right thing to do, even if he does not have the $700 to refund to me. If you have a way of contacting John, please do so. I want my cue back months ago. I'll let you know when I finally get it back, hopefully soon.

Best regards,

Mike
Now thats a stand up man rite there. I wish he would buy the cue from you also.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Funny thing, I think back to that hilarious episode on the Judge Judy show where someone took a somewhat famous cuemaker in CA 'to court' for something similar. That had to have been twenty something years ago.

My, how times haven't changed a bit. :frown:

That was Tim Padgett and the plaintiff was Peggy Blondiaux from Beach Billiards. Peggy won easily and Judge Judy quipped that if a something was $10,000 then it better be on her hand.
 

Quality Cues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Are you concerned at all if he even still has the cue?

Yes, of course I'm concerned that Showman might not even be in possession of my cue. All I can tell you is that he has represented to me for months that he has been working on the cue and was close to finishing the project. In fact, by an email sent on 9/22/15, Showman represented that he was going to ship the cue back to me the week beginning Monday, 9/21/15. But, as my post makes clear, Showman has repeatedly lied to me and cannot be trusted.
 

shinobi

kanadajindayo
Silver Member
One is, the rest aren't. Doesn't matter. As a maker it hurts when I know that there are projects that need be done and they aren't moving. It hurts more when customers finally lose all their patience and make threads like these.

I don't want to say I feel bad for John Showman. I want to say that I have immense respect for any craftsman in any craft who can manage time properly and bring in projects as promised on time. This is the part of the business that sucks the passion out of it but in many ways is MORE CRITICAL than the product being made.

Way to turn another thread into commentary about yourself. Shocker.

There is an obvious difference between losing patience over a failed deadline, and losing patience over a clear and deliberate, ongoing pattern of lies and fake deadlines. Add to that the possibility of lost or stolen goods that may never be returned, hence the stalling. Who knows.
 

Quality Cues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Way to turn another thread into commentary about yourself. Shocker.

There is an obvious difference between losing patience over a failed deadline, and losing patience over a clear and deliberate, ongoing pattern of lies and fake deadlines. Add to that the possibility of lost or stolen goods that may never be returned, hence the stalling. Who knows.

You hit the nail squarely on the head. Touche!!!
 

JimmyRayK

Gina collector
Silver Member
I don't care what anybody says, this is indefensible.

Disappointing to say the least.

JimmyK
 

wahcheck

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Agreed

I don't care what anybody says, this is indefensible.

Disappointing to say the least.

JimmyK

The OP said the original estimate to get the cue done was a couple of weeks?
My God, it's been almost a year..........with many other "2 week promises?"

I'll say it is indefensible!

What's more; it seems he is having trouble just getting his cue back, finished or not!
 

edwu

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Reading this thread makes me want to post my bad experience with a certain cue maker.....
 

SUPERSTAR

I am Keyser Söze
Silver Member
Reading this thread makes me want to post my bad experience with a certain cue maker.....

Posting it might prevent someone from suffering the same fate.
But don't hijack this thread, start your own.
 

MoAli

Registered
Mike you were more than fair with him! Sue his ass and make sure you get him for every dime owed to you!!!!!!!
 
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