Splitting The Difference Aiming System

Low500 said:

Touchy...touchy...touchy, BC-21.
Kinda' got a short fuse there, don't you, lad?
By the way, I've wanted to mention this for a while and have sort of let you slide, but here it comes......
What are you doing trying to advertise/sell your book. (with various references to it), in this Aiming Forum anyway?
They have a "FOR SALE/WANTED" forum on the site here.
In my opinion, that would be the place for you to advertise about your book...not in here.
Mmmmmmm..?? :idea2:

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Lol....yeah....I was probably a little touchy or short-fused with Dave's response to my very civil post about StD and fractional style aiming.

And I don't think I've been pushing my book here with posts. The only time I bring it up is when guys like you or Dave troll/fish for a response.

I advertise in magazines, bookstores, and a couple of billboards locally. I also have the link on every post that says POOLOLOGY in colorful letters there with my name, which, unlike other members on AZ that really promote/push their products here, I pay for the gold membership. I think it's the right thing to do. This website is the hub of the online pool and billiards world, so it makes perfect sense for those involved in the industry to mingle here. And if they have any interest in promoting or advertising their products here, like DVD's or books or cues, cases, lessons, etc..., they should at least step up and become a gold member.

SpiderWebComm said:

I wouldn't consider it bashing. Just an initial impression that took me by surprise when first seeing it. You might agree if you saw it yourself. Or maybe not.

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Lol. He might actually read it and discover just how simple it really is. I mean, some things aren't as complicated as they initially appear. :wink:

SpiderWebComm said:

I'd really prefer going back to this specific thread and system I started to keep it growing and have others do likewise without comparisons. Is that unreasonable?

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The thread started off as a comparison between Little Mike's system and your system or version of shiskabob.
I like the thread, but as you already stated....the latest StD vid shows something different than the first. Instead of being more like Shiskabob, it's morphed into a straight aim style method. You noticed it. I noticed it. But me saying it looked like a watered down "fractional" system was a no-no I suppose. It was ok to compare it with pivot systems when little Mike said he was pivoting, but not ok to compare it to straight-aim fractional methods when he said he just aims for the difference between his ref point and the ob edge, but it's your thread so you can steer it any way you want.

I'm with you....steer this thing back to what we thought little Mike was doing in the first place, or back to what you were showing with the pivots before the "fraction" word brought total dismay.

SpiderWebComm said:

Glad this thread motivated you from being a lurker to a participant and you want to learn.

Looks like you have a decent grasp of what's going on and how to do it. Although I've always said on here starting from an inside offset and pivoting back to CCB is the stronger way to go, I'd like to see you become more proficient with CCB to COB and then pivot to the outside just so you can have both in your arsenal. As well as CCB to 1/4 OB and pivot; or CCB to OBE without pivot and WITH pivot for harder cuts.

I posted this earlier in the thread. Set the balls up as it's described for BOTH right and left cuts and BOTH PIVOTS. If any of it is confusing, let me know and I'll explain.

These are NOT difficult cuts but it will give you the visuals and feel for both right and left cut shots. DISTANCE will come into play. Figure out what you have to do to prevent either an overcut or undercut and let us know:

Try doing what I do by lining up center to center and then pivot to outside, but start with SHALLOW cuts.

Put the CB on the middle diamond on the side rail of the head side two balls away from the rail.

Put the OB the same distance (two balls away from the rail) but the next diamond down toward the center pocket. You'll be shooting these balls into the corner pocket on the same side. Do it for a right cut and also for a left cut on the other side of the table.

Line up center to center like you're going to hit it directly into the end rail to miss the corner pocket. Then pivot about 1/4 to 1/2 tip to the OUTSIDE and then stroke.
I don't know whether 1/4 tip will do it or 1/2 tip will based on your cue.

You should be able to make the shot over and over and over without missing in both directions to the corner pocket.

When you get dialed in, keep the CB at the same place on the table but move the OB down even with the side pocket; then move the OB two balls away from the first diamond beyond the pocket; then to the middle diamond past the pocket; and then to the last diamond near the corner pocket on both sides of the table.

If you pivot beyond the 1/4 or 1/2 tip and go to the 1/4 BALL position of the OB, you'll be overcutting it and will hit the side rail in front of the pocket.

Get this down pat and we'll move to other positions next.

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Ok spent the last couple of days working on these shallow cuts.

I am playing on smaller bar tables with bar cues so the consistency of tip size changes a bit. I plan on getting a cue of my own soon.

I have found pivoting from left to right is easier, than the opposite for me.

I also noticed that the closer that the OB and CB are the more pivot is needed.

If CB is on first diamond, and OB is on the second I need about a 3/4 to full tip pivot. At least that's what it feels like to me.

If the OB is on the last diamond before the pocket, I need about 1/2 tip pivot.

I have also found that pivoting to the outside thins the cut and makes the CB go more straight.

I have also found that if I StD ("pivot to the outside") it seems to consistently thin the cut.

SpiderWebComm said:

Keep practicing both ways. Center to outside and inside to center. You'll need them both when playing to assist with position.

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Is there a "logic" or rule of thumb for using outside vs inside for position?

Probably a dominant eye thing and where your head is positioned over the cue.

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I am very left eye dominant so that could be the case.

What does it look like? What I mean by that is where does the tip after pivot end up on the CB based on where it was at address before the pivot?

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Tip ends up in CCB. I line up CCB to COB, with the tip offset about 3/4 to 1 tip inside, then I pivot back to CCB. This seems to pocket the ball fairly consistantly, unless I; over pivot, miss hit, or line up with too much offset.

SpiderWebComm said:

You're on the right track and doing just fine. Keep working and it'll all become so second nature you'll be seeing everything immediately to be able to stroke and watch those balls roll in the hole.

Keep posting your results, questions, and feedback.

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Ok. Played around with this more yesterday.

The inside pivot is becoming fairly natural to me.

Still having trouble identifying the angle/shots, especially between CCB > OB 3/4 to edge to edge.

Also undercutting hard cuts when aligned CB 1/8 to OB 1/8 with pivot, and overcutting Edge to Edge.

Was trying to figure out how I might use the cue to identify the closest "reference point", by lining up behind OB with the cue to center of OB on the table, and then rotating back over the CB, and then using that as my reference.

Should also mention that I watched Stan Shuffets video on "Professional Stroke Structure" on youtube. The whole video is great, but the one thing that helped me alot with my stroke is having my hand hit my chest after the stroke. Very useful.

Happy New Year to all of my forum friends.

Talk to you all tomorrow..........going to bed.

I've had 70 of these new years.

John

One Pocket John said:

Happy New Year to all of my forum friends.

Talk to you all tomorrow..........going to bed.

I've had 70 of these new years.

John

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Right back at ya! Happy New Year!

Training Session 6 (part 1 of 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EOX7QILXHM

Part 2 of 3 is also posted.

Part 3 of 3 is also posted

John

SpiderWebComm said:

John, am I missing something in a certain video I may not have watched or fast forwarded throughout each one just to see what he was setting up but not seen other things I was looking for?

First of all, I think you know I'm a proponent of what he shows because it's like Shiskabob with an outside pivot. It's very strong in accuracy.

But what I haven't seen is some sharp cut angles with more distance between the balls. Where is his visual reference and where does the pivot end up?

Most everything seems to be center to center pivoting to 25 and that's it. What did I miss and where is it for the more severe cuts?

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Good question Dave.

I haven't seen any either. I'm going to comment in 6.3 of his videos and see what happens. I copied your questions, worded a little different but the core of the questions remain.

The more I watch these video's the more I like CTE.

John

John

Ok, I asked some of the questions in the video comments and read all the comments on every training video, I have all the answers now.

He actually uses only three categories - center CB to outside quarter of the OB, center CB to outside edge of the OB and inside edge of the CB to outside edge of the OB.

In first 2 cats he aligns first quarter thicker and says to pivot to those 2 aimpoints on the OB, but he isn't actually pivoting because he realigns his whole cue, body and bridge to be aiming center of the CB to outside quarter and edge of the OB, so he could aim directly at those points but recommends it this way as a part of some preshot routine.

Last cat, edge to edge, he uses for thin cuts where he puts his visual center on that line while in the same time aiming at CCB.

Thats it, this isn't really something similar to shishkebob, its actually more like a quarters system, his pivot isn't really a pivot, its realigninig of the cue, body and bridge hand while in the set position, I wouldn't recommend that to anyone.

But he does have some other good tips, for safeties - last video, and some videos before - for straight ins where he aligns top of CB and top of OB instead of bottom, worked great for me.