Gamble or Not

whiteoak said:

I wanted to ask a question that may get me laughed out of here but ... Do any of the knowledgable folks here play tournaments and play recreationally but aren't gamblers? Its not a loaded question,judgemental, or troll post but just curious.A cue maker once told me that pool is a gamblers game and if you weren't a gambler you were in the wrong sport. Any thoughts on it? Thanks In Advance,Mike

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Personally I enjoyed playing for stakes. I had friends that shot really well that didn’t play for money. We still had fun competing. I respect anyone that tells me they don’t gamble. If however I find them playing my wife for $5 later, I will say; “Oh you don’t gamble but you will steal!”

Gambling is not an accurate term to use for playing for money. There was a court case in Washington state that involved non payment after a match. I heard that Harry Platis litigated the case and won on the part of the unpaid player. The judge determined that it was a contest of skill and not gambling. The debt for the bet between the two on the side was not collected because that was gambling.

whiteoak said:

I wanted to ask a question that may get me laughed out of here but ... Do any of the knowledgable folks here play tournaments and play recreationally but aren't gamblers? Its not a loaded question,judgemental, or troll post but just curious.A cue maker once told me that pool is a gamblers game and if you weren't a gambler you were in the wrong sport. Any thoughts on it? Thanks In Advance,Mike

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There is a lot of gambling in pool. Golf too. Even in cornhole, darts and tennis, money trades hands. That doesn't make any of them better or worse sports. It's just part of a culture of competition you can choose to, or not to, participate in.

You don't have to gamble to get better, and gambling itself won't make you better. What will is getting yourself under pressure to win. For some, they only get that feeling when there is money involved. Some people get a bigger rush from a tournament or playing a rival team in their league. Playing under that kind of pressure and getting used to it will make you the better player.

I gamble mostly with people I know because there is less arguing than with randoms. We all know each other's games so there's few surprises. I also play for free or for drinks too. I don't need to wager to make it interesting. The pressure is in taking pride in what I'm doing and performing well.

I never play for money, but if someone beats me I'll be happy to let them buy me lunch. Or a cup of coffee. But, watch out cause I play at a very low level.

whiteoak said:

I wanted to ask a question that may get me laughed out of here but ... Do any of the knowledgable folks here play tournaments and play recreationally but aren't gamblers? Its not a loaded question,judgemental, or troll post but just curious.A cue maker once told me that pool is a gamblers game and if you weren't a gambler you were in the wrong sport. Any thoughts on it? Thanks In Advance,Mike

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I am known locally as a non gambler.There are plenty of people like me to play with who don’t care for gambling either.
I have gambled in the past and won many times.When I win I feel nothing and when I lose I feel like a dope wasting hard earned money.I get absolutely nothing from it over just playing for play.

I do agree that you need pressure to build your game though.Leagues and tourneys can provide enough if you hate to lose enough.

currently i am not gambling on pool

i also quit going to the pool room
two reasons

i don't want to be tempted to gamble again
i don't play if i am not gambling

i do bat them around on my table at home
i play a few racks here a few there but it is
meaningless

sure if jack comes over we hit balls,he his a few
and i remember the old days

i hit a few and he says"how in the world did
you win all that money?"

we both laugh, I might never have met Jack if it were not for pool

I also met a few others in Oak Cliff when we were young

Only Jack and I are alive now

I grew up playing in the 70's.

At that point there were gamblers who didn't play tourneys and lots of live action on the pool tables. I rarely gambled. I did often wager on pool games though. I was a good gambler, but a poor pool player, never challenging myself. We had some ghosts in my area. People who could and did win sizable amounts playing pool. One fellow won enough to buy a house in a weekend and he was just a short stop who happened to play the guy who took the leveling money(wish I could recall what this is called) from illegal sports gambling. He won $18-20K and bought a house. Not sure if he ever played in anything more than bar tourneys.

Back then I had walked in to a weekly tourney on long tables and looked around the room and counted 14 people who I knew had won more than $500 in a night playing pool. That in a small town of Tallahassee.

These days of the internet, there isn't the ability to hide and be a ghost. More sand bagging in league play and winning a few dollars in their tourneys or trips. I worked for a couple years in a pool room that hosted the State tourney (Missouri) just off of I-70 in the early 2000's. It was rare for hustlers/road players to come in. It was a weekly thing back in Tallahassee, though some of that was location with players going to fleece vacationers.

By the late 80's Maybe 90, you could see the changes coming. Everyone feared gambling. Money added tourneys were good draws. I once went to a tourney in central GA. $65 or 75 entry $2000 added. It must have been between tourneys in Atlanta and Florida short tour. The list was pretty wild. Lots of household names Mike Massey, Jimmy Reid, Johnny Archer, Doug James, Mike Galassuy,(? cue maker in central FL heck of a pool player) I missed money day, when I was put out at 3:30am by a Florida tour golfer! who's money I had made the trip on while giving him the 7...

let er rip if so inclined

besides adjusting talent a more subtle adjustment is treasure, ie: fire toothpicks at lumberyards

that said, always have a loss limit

Willie didn't gamble

After Brunswick signed him he never gambled again. Contracted. And Heart attacks. I do not think Shane gambles any more. Not sure though. I knew the only successful gambler and he said if you do not have to gamble, don't.
Gambling is not gambling when the best player has no shot of loosing. It is a sorry substitute for a no sponsor game that is called a sport.
The lesson goes back as far as India's mythology. Thousands of years. And it's teachings that the gambler will lose always to the master of the game.
Nick

good thread and replies
obviously you can have one without the other
but gambling and pool have been linked closely for some time
the word "pool" is even allegedly derived from "pool of money"
I respect the art of making a game
and I admire good action
but personally
I don't wager much but time on pool
I enjoy it too much
thankfully, pool isn't my job
in my experience
money just complicates things
and brings out ugly in people
"hey you, greenback!"
stay away from my girl.

ribdoner said:

let er rip if so inclined

besides adjusting talent a more subtle adjustment is treasure, ie: fire toothpicks at lumberyards

that said, always have a loss limit

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A loss limit is a good idea.

If one doesn't have a loss-limit....well, they will end up chasing good money with "dead-money".


^^^^^^^^^^^^^ leads me to vvvvvvvvvvvv

Casinos rely on people chasing their own money.

Prime example:

Someone sits down at a slot machine and think "if I get ahead as much as $50, I'll quit and play something else".

Well, they put $20 in the slot machine. A few spins later, their $20 is gone so, they put another $20 in. Well, several twenties later, having not won anything, they decide to put yet another $20 in and before they know it, they are thinking:

If I could get most of my money back, I would quit and play something else.....lol......and before they know it....their going to the ATM to get more money because "in their mind".....they can't afford to quit because, after all...the machine is due to pay off.

A fool and his money will soon part ways....

Back in the day, road players thrived because of those type people. If not for "fools", a many a hustler would have either starved or quit pool and actually worked a real job..

Jeff

whiteoak said:

I wanted to ask a question that may get me laughed out of here but ... Do any of the knowledgable folks here play tournaments and play recreationally but aren't gamblers? Its not a loaded question,judgemental, or troll post but just curious. A cue maker once told me that pool is a gamblers game and if you weren't a gambler you were in the wrong sport. Any thoughts on it? Thanks In Advance,Mike

Click to expand...

There is gambling in every sport, in every facet of life. Gamblers are not limited or drawn to any specific sport. Plenty of great pool players never gamble. My point is, gamblers gamble. Whether it's pitching quarters, flipping coins, betting on football or basketball or baseball or whatever, betting for highest score playing pacman, betting on whether or not the next woman that walks into the place will be blonde or brunette, etc... There is always someone willing to bet on anything.

If you enjoy playing pool, gambling does not have to be involved, unless of course you also enjoy gambling. Some players simply like the pressure of playing for something, whether it's tournament prize money or just a few dollars on the line to make winning worth something more than just the pride of winning. For some, pride is enough. For others, $20 is enough. And for others, maybe $1000 a more.

I am a gambler, so I enjoy gambling. Whether it's cards or pool, I like knowing I'll get rewarded for doing well, and when I make a mistake it will cost more than just a little pride, which keeps the pressure on. But I also enjoy playing good pool and don't need to gamble in order to do that. But when I play free 1 pocket with friends, I find myself shooting shots with little regard of risk vs reward, because there is no consequence other than losing a game of pool to a buddy. Add money to the mix, even at just $10 or $20 a game, and now there is something to lose, something to win, and I play better. It probably shouldn't be that way. I mean, a good player shouldn't need incentive to play well. But it is what it is.

JazzyJeff87 said:

I practice to get better than I currently am. I go through phases of practicing, working on specific things, shots,stance, grip, etc...my game usually drops during this point, and then I work through it and come out playing a bit better, I rest on my laurels or whatever for a while and just play for enjoyment or money/tourneys...repeat.

I want to be the best pool player on the planet. I have no illusions here lol...but that’s what I practice for, just to be better than I am because the better I play the more satisfaction I get.

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Nowadays, I do pretty much the same thing, because I still want to be a dominant player.

I do tend to play better when money is on the table but I try to play that way in anything other than a casual game (and I try to avoid those). When playing league where I have to sit and wait my turn it can be a challenge to maintain that intensity.

I used to play for money (I don't call it gambling, since it is a contest) and did very well at 9 ball. During those days in this sparsely populated area it was difficult to get anyone to play me, even for free because they got tired of losing. If someone wanted to play for money, it was usually someone that knew me and thought they could win. To this day, there isn't much action around here, no pool halls, only bars.

I rarely had anyone just passing through ask to play me for money. Some would try but I would just cat and mouse them without letting them win. After they started looking at me funny I would tell them I wasn't interested but that other guy across the way might be.

Now, I play just for the satisfaction of winning, Period..

Last time I played 8 ball for money ($10) it was in response to hounding from a local young buck that fancies himself a shark. I ran out a difficult rack and he thanked me for the game and walked away. Another local player who plays well heard some scuttlebutt falsely attributed to me, wouldn't be persuaded by the truth and kept making noise about playing me for money to settle the (non)issue. Since he is the volatile type I just ignored him because taking his money would probably would have caused more grief. Pick your battles.

My advice to the OP would be that while playing for money or other stakes can make you a better player if you really love the game it is not required, but if you are approached by a wager, take it to see what happens and use it to sharpen your game as long as you don't get in over your head.

i would also recommend that you try wagering on races instead of per game, or just enter tournaments. In one of the leagues I play in we periodically do mini tournaments with a $10 or $20 entry fee that are a good way to play for stakes without the stress of hustling.

.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Tommy Kennedy doesn't gamble.

You draw his name in a tournament, and he plays his heart out.


I came up with a saying, or inadvertently stole it somehow:

There are two types of people in most pool rooms; Pool players who just happen to gamble, and Gamblers who just happen to play some pool. Normally the latter will be in trouble when they run into a pool player.

I've gone into rooms looking for action, and had just as much fun not gambling. I've also gone into rooms just to hit balls and end up in small sized sets.

The pressure of the situation is what might make you better. It might make you fumble.

I play pool to gamble.

GaryB said:

When I stopped gambling many, many years ago there were no exceptions--including pool. I have played in many tournaments against players both my equals and many much, much better. In pool there is a constant learning curve and I have always believed that you play the table not just an opponent. However, it has been my conclusion that the best players I have ever watched are those that were the gamblers.

Before the internet and Indian Casinos there were great rooms with constant action & living in So. Cal I was fortunate enough to experience both. My first experience on a weekend at Hard Times in the early 90's was an adventure into a culture I didn't even know existed. In the tournament room there were 1000's posted on every light. Players came in followed by their backers who were followed by their bodyguards and there was more woofing going on than in any dog pound. It was an amazing experience!

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I long for the old days at HardTimes in Bellflower. Any chance you remember Monrovia John.

Gambling used to be a much bigger part of the game than it is today. I love to gamble at pool but it is so hard to get a game anymore.

Kevin

whiteoak said:

I wanted to ask a question that may get me laughed out of here but ... Do any of the knowledgable folks here play tournaments and play recreationally but aren't gamblers? Its not a loaded question,judgemental, or troll post but just curious.A cue maker once told me that pool is a gamblers game and if you weren't a gambler you were in the wrong sport. Any thoughts on it? Thanks In Advance,Mike

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It's a great game so do what makes you enjoy the sport. Personally, i enjoy the game more with something/anything at stake. better focus, more excitement. Telling someone not to pursue the game unless they gamble is bad for the game (and his cue business as well)

yep, even in my little world!

jrctherake said:

A loss limit is a good idea.

If one doesn't have a loss-limit....well, they will end up chasing good money with "dead-money".


^^^^^^^^^^^^^ leads me to vvvvvvvvvvvv

Casinos rely on people chasing their own money.

Prime example:

Someone sits down at a slot machine and think "if I get ahead as much as $50, I'll quit and play something else".

Well, they put $20 in the slot machine. A few spins later, their $20 is gone so, they put another $20 in. Well, several twenties later, having not won anything, they decide to put yet another $20 in and before they know it, they are thinking:

If I could get most of my money back, I would quit and play something else.....lol......and before they know it....their going to the ATM to get more money because "in their mind".....they can't afford to quit because, after all...the machine is due to pay off.

A fool and his money will soon part ways....

Back in the day, road players thrived because of those type people. If not for "fools", many a hustler would have either starved or quit pool and actually worked a real job..

Jeff

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Yep, even in my little world I always said a fool and his money were some party!

Not nearly as proud of it now as I was then but for a couple years or so the idea wasn't just to beat a guy but to bust him down to the clothes he was standing in and sometimes he lost some of those!

I teased players along. They knew if just one shot had went differently they might have won. Hard to quit when they knew that they could get their money back with just a little different luck. It didn't much matter a player's skill level, they all almost won. For a lot of reasons I insisted on playing by the game, not sets. Playing sets people are more aware what they are losing. By the game they win a little they lose a little, they are doing OK. Some don't realize they have thrown away a good bit until they can't find anything but lint in their pockets.

One evening I was slapped in the face with reality. These were real people and that was real money I was taking from them. It affected not just them but their families. I didn't quit gambling nightly after that but I didn't deliberately plan to bust people anymore.

Hu

I played a tournament (finished 2nd) and played some $20 sets last night. I don't gamble much, honestly I dont like to, but some players will only shoot with ya if there is money on the line.

I believe that gambling, tournament play, friendly match ups, or solo pool are all individual decisions for many, many reasons. But, I also do believe that one has to have some decent level of competitive play to really sharpen the game in terms of final focus. Straight pool might be the exception, where it can be easier to "get lost" in the game playing solo. But even then, you won't learn the safety game much playing alone.
To be the very best that you can, in most sports, a health combination of competition, instruction, and meaningful solo play all combine to mold into the right mix. If gambling is one's choice for the competitive aspect of the game, so be it. But one thing I have seen over and over again, people who don't take the time to evaluate their game and work on their flaws in solo or instructional venues usually just continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.

I have been playing pool for 25-or-so years and never gambled (more than $1/game) and I do qualify as a tournament/team competitition player (many years).

Yet I do know my game progressed tremendously in the last few years, despite that. I guess the whole "money's on the line so I better concentrate"-thing does not apply to me, I've always been able to concentrate with nothing on the line.