Question About Deliberate Practice for Experienced Instructors

Now, don't take this wrong, but if your limit is two racks on a bar table, you have a ways to go yet. The first thing I would be working on is my fundamentals. They are your absolute foundation. Without solid fundamentals, everything else ends up being hit and miss.

Then, I would do something like the Billiard University test to see just what my weaknesses really are. Then work on those weaknesses. I wouldn't consider practice play at all for that first month.

But, whatever drills you do, make sure not to do them just to get through them. Do them to LEARN!

Great question! That's what this forum is all about.

There are two areas that a player must practice.
1. Themselves (behind the cue ball)
2. The table (in front of the cue ball)

If you have never been to a PBIA Instructor to get video taped, you might be training the wrong things. Before I started out on my 30 day work-out, I had outside eyes looking at my bodes performance. I needed to be correct before I started.

Playing is just as important to practice as practice is to play. Playing is the mirror of your practice routines under pressure. Play is the feedback of what to practice.

Always keep your practice routines to about 20 minutes. Two a day would be perfect.
The great Dr. Snow said: "the rate of productivity seems to RAPIDLY decline after about 20 minutes of practice."

With all that said.
Good luck on your journey
randyg

Yes, I agree with JK.

80/20 or so drills/play mix for aspiring (VERY aspiring) student.

Vice versa for a pro or high level player.

I would be happy to give you a free lesson-no fiscal obligation-to look at your fundamentals. As pointed out above, drilling bad fundamentals in deeper is no help.

Plus in many cases on a first lesson, I'll alter what you're doing so you go up a level immediately.

Not an instructor here but chiming in anyway because I've grown so tired of reading things that don't even come close to passing the sniff test.

Does anybody honestly believe that there's a human endeavor that has been mastered by practicing twice a day for 20 minutes? Sure this might get an APA 3 up to a 4, but if you really want to excel at this game you need to do what ALL the champions have done -- play until your arm falls off.

Some of this stuff is so ridiculous.

Something to keep in mind: Research on developing skills/talent shows that the brain learns better and faster when exposed to short practice sessions geared toward known areas of weakness. This works for everything, from juggling to playing a musical instrument to playing pool or golf or baseball, etc... 5 minutes every day focused on perfecting a specific element of the larger goal/picture creates a stronger long-term memory retention than cramming 10 hours in on a Saturday afternoon.

BC21,
I understand that humans learn specific skills more efficiently in shorter intervals. I don't think that can be disputed. The problem is, many instructors have taken this information and ran with it to the point of the absurd. So instead of telling a player to push themselves to the absolute limit on the practice table, while working on as many skills as possible (in short durations) and mixing in fun play to relax your mind, and then get right back at it -- they say stuff like two 20 minute sessions of practice a day is perfect. Come on now.

Oh and just to add a little more background....

I can't quote the instructor or the post but I recall a conversation on AZ about this topic and a well known instructor mentioned something along the lines of a player would benefit more from practicing a couple ten minute sessions a day than they would from playing the ghost for 8 to 10 hours a day (I don't recall the exact times) and many agreed with this point of view.

So what's being missed? I'm not exactly sure, but the real world evidence of this can not be found in our game. The truly great players have all gone through a period of YEARS where they played up to 8 to 10 hours a day. Many of them have stated they never even really did drills. Now I suspect this doesn't mean they never worked on specific shots but they are thinking of more setup type specific drill work. Here I could be wrong.

And another thought: I don't think you can reach the top simply by drilling your way there through 20 minute practice sessions built upon each other, but I do think some players have gotten there without any drill work whatsoever, but instead by being TOTALLY IMMERSED in the game. These guys (and gals) get totally mesmerized by the game, losing track of time and space, and just play for hours on end, continuously, day after day.

So what I think happens in this forum quite often is the importance of the long session, non-stop, subconscious play is downplayed in favor of the short duration drill work. Of course this makes sense, because it's much more appealing to us players to think if we just focus for a few minutes a day we can work our way to the top.

BasementDweller said:

BC21,
I understand that humans learn specific skills more efficiently in shorter intervals. I don't think that can be disputed. The problem is, many instructors have taken this information and ran with it to the point of the absurd. So instead of telling a player to push themselves to the absolute limit on the practice table, while working on as many skills as possible (in short durations) and mixing in fun play to relax your mind, and then get right back at it -- they say stuff like two 20 minute sessions of practice a day is perfect. Come on now.

Click to expand...

You're right. There is a well-defined line between constructive practice and wasting time. I'd say a good instructor knows this, and I'm sure there many qualified instructors here that agree. I'm not a qualified pool instructor, but the learning process is the same regardless of what subject or skill is being taught.

It's about pushing the limits. And it's not so much time-oriented as it is quality-oriented. If you're working on draw shots, make it a game. Pick a certain number of successful attempts to win, like shoot 20 successful draw shots in a row before saying you've won/achieved your practice goal. Set your rules....each draw must bring the CB straight back between 10" and 14" after contacting the OB. If it goes sideways, or under/over draws, the count starts over. If the game feels too hard and you can't seem to do any better than 5 or 6 in a row, then you will become frustrated because it's no fun. Like playing any game, if winning feels hopeless most people get bored and quit. If winning is just outside your reach, but close enough that it's obtainable (maybe not every time at first), then you'll keep at it until you win.

So with this particular game of draw shots, maybe you find yourself starting off with 7 as a winning score. Once you begin easily winning at 7, raise the requirement to 10, etc...The goal is to always strive for more, where it's not too easy to win and surely not too hard.

I've taught this way giving snare drumming lessons and guitar lessons. It's very effective. I might be out of line to assume it works as well for pool, but that's something a good pool instructor could probably verify.

BC21,
Would you agree with this thought of mine that there's at least one major difference between playing pool and playing a musical instrument and it is that after just a little bit of initial instruction and table time, once the basics of the game are understood, the entire game can be learned and/or played with very minimal conscious thought, as opposed to a musical instrument where one must continually add more knowledge in order to improve? I don't think if someone were to stumble upon a guitar in the forest that they would just figure out how to form a F chord for instance.

I guess I'm getting off track now and maybe I was being a bit harsh in first post but this is one of my pet subjects.

BasementDweller said:

BC21,
Would you agree with this thought of mine that there's at least one major difference between playing pool and playing a musical instrument and it is that after just a little bit of initial instruction and table time, once the basics of the game are understood, the entire game can be learned and/or played with very minimal conscious thought, as opposed to a musical instrument where one must continually add more knowledge in order to improve? I don't think if someone were to stumble upon a guitar in the forest that they would just figure out how to form a F chord for instance.

I guess I'm getting off track now and maybe I was being a bit harsh in first post but this is one of my pet subjects.

Click to expand...

Not sure. Both skills have basic fundamentals, and once those are learned and become less conscious, there is a seemingly neverending process of interpretation and subconscious learning that takes place. The more someone plays pool, the more they are programming their brain for auto play, as long as they pay attention to what's going on, the good and the bad. There is still conscious effort that must occur during pool game situations... assessing the rack, visualizing patterns, etc...The subconscious only takes over when we get down to shoot, hopefully. :grin:. Call it execution or performance mode.

It's the same thing a performing guitar player does before strumming the first chord. The conscious thoughts might be, is my guitar in tune, what song am I about to play, is the drummer sober, etc... The brain consciously processes these thoughts just before taking the subconscious dive into performance mode. We aren't really thinking about playing the guitar as much as we are feelingit. So, for me anyway, I find the two skills very similar as far as learning and performing.

BasementDweller said:

Not an instructor here but chiming in anyway because I've grown so tired of reading things that don't even come close to passing the sniff test.

Does anybody honestly believe that there's a human endeavor that has been mastered by practicing twice a day for 20 minutes? Sure this might get an APA 3 up to a 4, but if you really want to excel at this game you need to do what ALL the champions have done -- play until your arm falls off.

Some of this stuff is so ridiculous.

Click to expand...

So my friend, you are calling some great doctors wrong?
Explain to us your background in sports training, please.
Or are you speaking as a pool player.

By the way, I believe that most pro sports feature two-a-day workouts.

Interested
randyg

PocketSpeed11 said:

I could be wrong, but I think he means those two 20 minute practice sessions as being set aside for drills, but that I should also be playing in addition to the drills.

Anyways, some great suggestions guys. I like the idea of continuing practice play as well. I'm an idiot when it comes to technical stuff so I'll have to get somebody to help me with filming while I shoot and downloading that to a computer. Thanks!

Click to expand...

Correct

randyg

BC21 said:

Something to keep in mind: Research on developing skills/talent shows that the brain learns better and faster when exposed to short practice sessions geared toward known areas of weakness. This works for everything, from juggling to playing a musical instrument to playing pool or golf or baseball, etc... 5 minutes every day focused on perfecting a specific element of the larger goal/picture creates a stronger long-term memory retention than cramming 10 hours in on a Saturday afternoon.

Click to expand...

Thank you

randyg

Bob Jewett,

Yeah you're right. I went off on a tangent and it wasn't even a well thought out one.