Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Instruction & Ask the pros > Ask The Instructor
Reload this Page how did a advanced/instructor player make his worst shot his best shot?
Reply
Page 2 of 2 12
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old
  (#16)
FranCrimi
AzB Silver Member
FranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,752
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Dec 2010
   
10-16-2019, 05:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenRobbins View Post
I was reading old articles and came across this and thought of this thread.
https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports...r-finds-peace/
Well of course you have to work on it. But the question everyone is addressing here is 'how.'
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#17)
KenRobbins
AzB Silver Member
KenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 293
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Feb 2010
   
10-16-2019, 09:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Well of course you have to work on it. But the question everyone is addressing here is 'how.'
Like anything else, 'work' on it, which is the question I read.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#18)
FranCrimi
AzB Silver Member
FranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,752
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Dec 2010
   
10-16-2019, 10:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenRobbins View Post
Like anything else, 'work' on it, which is the question I read.
Did you read the part where he asks which method is best or does it matter?
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#19)
KenRobbins
AzB Silver Member
KenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 293
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Feb 2010
   
10-16-2019, 11:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Did you read the part where he asks which method is best or does it matter?
Yes I did read that. You guys already addressed how well, but how much work do you put into how? Just 30 minutes or until you really get it? He already knows fundamentals come first and is getting lessons from an instructor.

He already knows all this and how much work he needs to put into it. The amount of work is overwhelming and he's seeking a reality check. lol
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#20)
BC21
Poolology

BC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond repute
 
BC21's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,256
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: West Virginia
   
10-16-2019, 11:36 AM

Knowing you need to work on a particular shot isn't so much of a mystery as knowing how you should work on the shot. Everyone agrees that work is needed -- that's non-debatable -- but the "how" seems to be a matter of varying opinion, despite the abundance of research available when it comes to skill/talent and habit development.

The old-school "work" method would have you hitting several hundred balls per day in order to get a particular shot under your belt, practicing for multiple hours daily, the HAMB method. Many pros and instructors have learned this way, so they will surely stand by that approach. But the HAMB method has taken a back seat to more effective learning methods, like replacing long dreaded practice sessions with much shorter practice sessions spread throughout the day, where quality of practice has proven more effective than quantity of practice.

Pay attention to how you miss. If you notice a pattern of overcutting or undercutting the longer rail shots, then it's likely (as Fran or someone already mentioned) that you aren't seeing/aligning the shot correctly. You are in the habit of aligning yourself out of tune with this particular shot, for whatever reason.

The cure is to consciously/purposely fix the alignment, either by approaching the shot slightly thinner or slightly thicker than you think (based on how you typically find yourself missing the shot). Ftom this mindful adjustment you need to shoot 20 or 30 shots and then take a break and think about what you did and what the difference was. You might find that the adjusted alignment clicked/resonated quickly. Or it may feel awkward. The key is to keep doing this, hitting a few shots with 100% mindfulness in approaching and lining up for the shot, settting a goal to pocket 5 in a row, then taking a break, then doing it again a few hours later. When 5 becomes easy set a goal for 7 or 8 and so on.
Within a week or so you'll begin to notice that you aren't consciously trying to line up a little thinner or thicker anymore -- you'll be doing it automatically without even thinking about.


POOLOLOGY
YouTube
Brian Crist
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#21)
KenRobbins
AzB Silver Member
KenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond reputeKenRobbins has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 293
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Feb 2010
   
10-16-2019, 12:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
Knowing you need to work on a particular shot isn't so much of a mystery as knowing how you should work on the shot. Everyone agrees that work is needed -- that's non-debatable -- but the "how" seems to be a matter of varying opinion, despite the abundance of research available when it comes to skill/talent and habit development.

The old-school "work" method would have you hitting several hundred balls per day in order to get a particular shot under your belt, practicing for multiple hours daily, the HAMB method. Many pros and instructors have learned this way, so they will surely stand by that approach. But the HAMB method has taken a back seat to more effective learning methods, like replacing long dreaded practice sessions with much shorter practice sessions spread throughout the day, where quality of practice has proven more effective than quantity of practice.

Pay attention to how you miss. If you notice a pattern of overcutting or undercutting the longer rail shots, then it's likely (as Fran or someone already mentioned) that you aren't seeing/aligning the shot correctly. You are in the habit of aligning yourself out of tune with this particular shot, for whatever reason.

The cure is to consciously/purposely fix the alignment, either by approaching the shot slightly thinner or slightly thicker than you think (based on how you typically find yourself missing the shot). Ftom this mindful adjustment you need to shoot 20 or 30 shots and then take a break and think about what you did and what the difference was. You might find that the adjusted alignment clicked/resonated quickly. Or it may feel awkward. The key is to keep doing this, hitting a few shots with 100% mindfulness in approaching and lining up for the shot, settting a goal to pocket 5 in a row, then taking a break, then doing it again a few hours later. When 5 becomes easy set a goal for 7 or 8 and so on.
Within a week or so you'll begin to notice that you aren't consciously trying to line up a little thinner or thicker anymore -- you'll be doing it automatically without even thinking about.
If that's the case, which pros today take this approach to their practice sessions that beat up on Shane Van Boening and the likes? From real world results from what I gather, is the one that puts most work in his game (correctly) always raises to the top. I'm all for working smarter, not harder, but the most interesting are the results from both methods.

A player that takes numerous breaks working on a shot to make it 5 out of 5 times vs a player not stopping until he makes it 10 out of 10 times, which player you going to put your money on? I also believe the player working 10 times harder will have a much higher mental edge, then a player seeking a back rub after 30 minutes of practice.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#22)
BC21
Poolology

BC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond reputeBC21 has a reputation beyond repute
 
BC21's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,256
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: West Virginia
   
10-16-2019, 01:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenRobbins View Post
If that's the case, which pros today take this approach to their practice sessions that beat up on Shane Van Boening and the likes? From real world results from what I gather, is the one that puts most work in his game (correctly) always raises to the top. I'm all for working smarter, not harder, but the most interesting are the results from both methods.

A player that takes numerous breaks working on a shot to make it 5 out of 5 times vs a player not stopping until he makes it 10 out of 10 times, which player you going to put your money on? I also believe the player working 10 times harder will have a much higher mental edge, then a player seeking a back rub after 30 minutes of practice.
I think you're misunderstanding what I mean... If we're talking about learning a skill, then the goal used to help develop that skill should be just out of reach. So if you shoot a particularly challenging shot 20 or 30 times and find that you only make it a few times, but never better than 3 times in a row. Then set your practice goal at 5 in a row. Or you might find that you make this shot 8 out of 20 shots, so set a practice goal of making it 10 or 12 out of out 20. It might take 5 min to do it or it might take an hour. If it takes 5 minutes then your goal was too easy and needs bumped up in order to make it more of a challenge, something that you must reach and work towards. This is how the brain builds pathways, by continually being challenged to reach for something a little farther away than we can already reach.

It's much more beneficial to practice hard and determined for 15min on one trouble shot, striving for a goal that is just at your fingertips, than it is to spend 2 hours or more mindlessly shooting the same shot over and over with no goal in mind or with a highly unlikely goal you have no chance to reach. This type of repetition is no good UNLESS you have impeccable concentration and focus on each shot. Most people, after a few minutes of repetition, begin to start rushing through the motions, paying less and less attention to the details, which is counterproductive when it comes to developing skills.

The difference between pro players and non pro players is the fact that pros have already developed nearly all the skills needed to play at the highest level. Their type of "practice" isn't the same skill-developing practice needed by a C or B player pushing to reach the next level. There's just no comparison. Same with golf or any other sport that relies on subconscious control of learned skills. We first learn the skills through conscious quality practice, then we refine and solidify our learned skills by repeating them over and over while playing.


POOLOLOGY
YouTube
Brian Crist

Last edited by BC21; 10-17-2019 at 08:52 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 2 of 2 12

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.