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Mike81
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Learn with an aiming system or not - 02-02-2017, 07:01 AM

Looking for some experienced shooters opinions on this. New to pool, been shooting steady for a year now and finally getting better. Want to know if I would make better progress with an aiming system or just stick to learning it by sight and feel. If this topic has been beat to death, my apologies in advance! Thanks for any input.
  
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02-02-2017, 07:45 AM

Welcome to the game it's fun and frustrating. Aiming using systems or not has been beat to death in this forum. It's a bit like a religion where there is a lot of emotions and AZ even created it's own forum here.

You can find all the info you want in that section. Good luck!


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02-02-2017, 07:52 AM

It doesn't matter how you aim you will be using some type of a system.

Best not to rely on a gimmick. It is better get a feel where you need to aim to contact the OB so it goes where you want.

🎱
  
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Mike81
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02-02-2017, 08:22 AM

Thanks guys, I will check out the aiming forum. Just curious about it that's all. I shoot in a league with lots experienced players and I'm trying to make progress as fast as I can to be competitive with them. I'm not trying to rush it but if I practice 15 hours a week I want it to be the most productive 15 hours and not waste time. Advice much appreciated
  
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02-02-2017, 08:33 AM

i think i would develop a feel for angles and aiming before getting a "system"
also as a beginner I would spend ALOT of time on stroke drills/development
since the house is only as strong as its foundation
jmho
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02-02-2017, 08:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike81 View Post
Thanks guys, I will check out the aiming forum. Just curious about it that's all. I shoot in a league with lots experienced players and I'm trying to make progress as fast as I can to be competitive with them. I'm not trying to rush it but if I practice 15 hours a week I want it to be the most productive 15 hours and not waste time. Advice much appreciated




Good luck with an aiming system. Pool is just memory and repetition.

You have to decide whether you want to miss close or "put 'em in the Hole."


There is only one place to hit the ball to make it. Just hit that spot and put 'em in the hole.


Just make it easy....








.
  
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02-02-2017, 08:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
i think i would develop a feel for angles and aiming before getting a "system"
also as a beginner I would spend ALOT of time on stroke drills/development
since the house is only as strong as its foundation
jmho
icbw
This.

Approaching the shot the same way everytime goes a long way to helping the brain learn "feel" at a faster pace.
  
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02-02-2017, 08:47 AM

I always tell beginners to start with the, I call it, that 1/4 ball aiming system, sorry I don't know the true name for it or if there is one. Anyways the reason I tell them to do this is so they can learn the angles because once you learn the angles you just automatically fall into your own aiming system whether it's ghost ball or looking at a spot because your brain will automatically adjust over time and the next thing you know you'll be getting down on shots and not even having to think about it.
  
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02-02-2017, 08:58 AM

Start with a simple aiming system like ghost ball so you can have some starting reference to guide your aim. Over time, you will start to develop a feel for aiming and be able to detect subtleties such as throw and also be more precise with your aim. After you've practiced and played a lot, you will not need to rely on an aiming system because your sense of aim will be better.

If you really want to improve quickly, work on your fundamentals - stance and stroke. Keep your body extremely still during the shot, then aiming becomes much easier because you can deliver the cue ball exactly where you want.
  
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02-02-2017, 09:06 AM

Excellent advice thank you all. I believe you answered my question. I will keep on practicing and be patient and im sure my aiming will get better. Just needed to hear it from some experienced people. Also I do practice my stroke and stance often. I figured out on my own that was my biggest problem.
  
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gregcantrall
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02-02-2017, 09:16 AM

Pre shot routine is more important.

If you can find an instructor or coach that you trust, lessons and feed back from a coach will go a long way.
Getting bits and pieces of advice on this or any other forum, is not nearly as productive.

Establishing good habits in the beginning saves years of breaking bad habits you will fall into without a good coach.

If new players would take just $300 of the money they are going to spend on a fancy cue and get 6 $50 lessons. They would be years ahead of the curve created by self help and bits and pieces of advice from unknown entities on a forum.
  
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02-02-2017, 10:09 AM

Getting great info from everyone. No need for an aiming system debate, I'm only asking if it's something worth learning vs going by my own sight, feel, etc..., just want to make sure I'm heading in the right direction. I did check that website and it's very informative! Lots of different ways of learning! Almost too many! So far one thing I have figured out is that pool can drive you crazy
  
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02-02-2017, 11:16 AM

I have been playing for about 40 years. Have won many tournaments. I learned some aiming systems about ten years ago. I really wish I had learned them 40 years ago. That said, fundamentals come first. Without a repeatable, accurate stroke, not much else really matters as it will all be hit and miss.
  
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02-02-2017, 12:07 PM

I think everyone would benefit from a system. I'll try and give you a general impression of pivot aiming. I use CTE. It's one of the more popular pivot aiming systems. I started working on it from the get-go so I never really spent much time on ghost ball. I still only use CTE, and occasionally I will aim by feel. I'll try and go over the pros and cons.

Pivot mean, at least for CTE mean's that you turn into the shot line.

Pros:
-If you can learn it from the get go, it'll definitely give you a wider range of shots off the bat. Thick cuts to thin cuts are pretty much the same difficulty of execution. Usually when you miss thin cuts, it's because of hesitation in your implementation of the system. That's pretty much the main reason to use an aiming system. It keeps you as a new player from falling into a trap of never being able to hit certain shots too thick for example.

-It gives you a solid way of looking at shots, and a good foundation for a Pre-shot routine.

-It reduces the amount of shots on the table down to 4 categories. You just have to pick the category and the ball will go into the pocket. If you're trying to pocket the ball in the center of the pocket, there's not much walking around to check the angle etc. You just know the category, apply it, and that's about it. It mean's less thinking essentially.

-Because you know that the ball is geometrically going into the exact center of the pocket, you can easily and precisely favour different sides of the pocket if you need to cheat stuff blindly.

-It's actually really good for bank shots and multiple rail banks. The multiple rail banks might not seem useful, but it really makes you more aware of the nature of how angles work on a pool table.

-It provides consistency across all shots that'll make you improvement seem scary fast.

Cons

-It's tough to learn and there is a lot of info that is confusing. The principles are always the same, but everyone perceives differently so making it your own is very difficult. If I had a nickel for every time someone said "My version of CTE". There are adjustments you have to make to incorporate it into your specific body and visual perception. And there's a super fine line between tailoring it, and butchering it.

-I definitely struggled at the beginning because as a new player, I was still trying to figure out what a straight stroke meant. Turning into the shot from different sides definitely was not helpful.

-Learning to recognize when to apply each category, when you're visuals are correct and how much to pivot by isn't easy. Getting them all to work together each time and then delivering a straight stroke down a line you landed sideways into...well a lot can go wrong in the beginning. You're never really going to miss by little amounts. It'll usually be by a lot. Mostly cause you apply the wrong category.

-It only gives you a centerball hit. So applying english requires adjustments. The most common is using Back Hand English which means your have to use a specific bridge length and could mean having to play with a shaft with a specific amount of deflection.
It also means that you're cueing down an infinite amount of different lines after you land.

-While you may be better at making every different angle across the board, it also means that you'll be worse. It's a two sided coin. It does make thin cuts as easy as thick cuts. But that also sort of means that you will be pretty much as likely to miss an easy cut as you would a difficult shot.

And finally it's not organic like ghost ball or fractional aiming. Everything you do is to get to a perfect centerball hit. Every adjustment you make for english is built around that centerball hit. It's like you're trying to macguyver something that already exists to make it serviceable. It'll work fine, but it's not the same as tailor making a shot by choosing the right amounts of speed, spin and aim. You're pretty much locked into one of the categories (aim), and you have to jerry-rig the other two categories to fit it.

I find because of this, it disconnects you're attention to the shot. You're busy applying all the steps and adjustments that whether the shot feels right get's pushed aside.


That being said, I still almost exclusively use CTE and I love it. It's just a different road. Either way you'll have to put in a ton of work.

I think personally ghost ball has a higher ceiling and the end goal is you can make any shot at any speed with any spin and you compose the shot in a more natural manner. But I think it's very easy to not get to this level. You may fall into a rut of favouring the same shots with the same spin.

CTE will let you see much more immediate improvement and consistency and you can definitely have all the shots to play great pool. And it will definitely make you more aware of how spin, deflection and swerve come into play as you try to keep the ball online. You will also have a structure that forces improvement. Because you don't get to choose one of the variables (aim), working to get the ball to deflect and swerve correctly is more important to work on where new ghost ball player might actually ignore.
  
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02-02-2017, 12:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregcantrall View Post
Pre shot routine is more important.

If you can find an instructor or coach that you trust, lessons and feed back from a coach will go a long way.
Getting bits and pieces of advice on this or any other forum, is not nearly as productive.

Establishing good habits in the beginning saves years of breaking bad habits you will fall into without a good coach.

If new players would take just $300 of the money they are going to spend on a fancy cue and get 6 $50 lessons. They would be years ahead of the curve created by self help and bits and pieces of advice from unknown entities on a forum.
sent you a greenie
great advice
  
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