Deposit for custom cue build

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
ive done an awful lot of stuff and never ever have i paid a trades person any money in advance. if they dont have money enough for materials that means their credit is bad with their supplier and i wouldnt want them.

on very big jobs you pay at predetermined stages or when billed like once a month. you have no or little recourse if they dont complete but they do as many will lien the job.
 

RichSchultz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ive done an awful lot of stuff and never ever have i paid a trades person any money in advance. if they dont have money enough for materials that means their credit is bad with their supplier and i wouldnt want them.

on very big jobs you pay at predetermined stages or when billed like once a month. you have no or little recourse if they dont complete but they do as many will lien the job.
tradespeople are different. custom cues are made as one offs, and the builder likely can’t resell something they made for a particular person. The down payment ensures the buyer is serious before all the intensive work begins.
 

cubswin

Just call me Joe...
Silver Member
I usually avoid deposits, but depends on the cuemaker. For instance Bob Dzuricky, www.dzcues.com, likes a deposit and have no issue in giving him one.

Last cue I ordered was a bluegrass, no deposit. I never asked how much, just paid for it a few weeks before it was done without any worries.

Ask about your potential cuemaker before placing the order, there are a ton of good ones, and sadly a lot of bad ones.
 

9Ballr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Three years ago I made a 2k "deposit" on a Lambros......BIG mistake.
Really really big mistake.
I'm using the word deposit because it was a deposit on a cue and it was supposed to be ready 6 months later.
However the total price of the cue was 2k, so deposit may not be correct.
I basically payed for the cue in full...then came the bs...and plenty of it too.
 
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speedy5963

speedy5963
Silver Member
First custom cue I ordered back in 04 was from Paul Dayton, paid in full upfront, no issues, cue was delivered about a month late due to some storms that affected Paul's shop. Ordered a number of other cues from Paul after, paid at delivery. I've given other cue makers zero to 25 percent deposit with no issues, Coker, BCM and a number of other reputable makers. Do your research and you should be ok, if it sounds to good to be true it probably is.
 

4scarecrow

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I gave Jerry Rauenzahn and Pete Tascarella both deposits up front. I gave Jerry half of the quoted price up front, and I believe I gave Pete a third. Both guys completed the work on time, and both stayed in touch throughout each build. Jerry was especially pleasant to deal with and even sent progress pictures periodically. Part of the reason that I ended up purchasing a total of five cues from him. You can’t go wrong with either one though.
 

Type79

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you deal with a professional, there is no reason to be reluctant to place a deposit.
 

JohnnyOzone

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Three years ago I made a 2k "deposit" on a Lambros......BIG mistake.
Really really big mistake.
I'm using the word deposit because it was a deposit on a cue and it was supposed to be ready 6 months later.
However the total price of the cue was 2k, so deposit may not be correct.
I basically payed for the cue in full...then came the bs...and plenty of it too.

Lambros almost died a couple of years ago
 

9Ballr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lambros almost died a couple of years ago

I've heard all the stories.
He also told me the "my dog died" story as well.
Oh and the "my whole stock of maple shafts must be replaced so I need a few months to take care of that".
Then there was the "I just had two customers order a 15k cue each and I need to do those asap".
One time I got the "Was it a wrap or wrapless"
Me: "It was wrapless"
"Oh, that's going to take a few more months".
Not saying the excuses and stories weren't true but it was a very bad experience.
Will never do that again.

Payed J. Rauenzahn upfront for a cue from him.
His communication was fantastic and the cue arrived right about exactly the day he said it would.
 

lakeman77

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Visit the Schmelke or Prather websites. See what cue building materials costs, butt blanks with veneers, rings, linen, joint pins, etc. Figure how much the builder has in material costs, then you decide what is fair.
 
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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
How long do you wait for a paycheck?

I haven't read this particular thread in it's entirety. I read the start, here and there, and the last post. This thread duplicates many before it. I will ask everyone here how long do they wait between the time they work and the time they get paid?

A reasonable shop rate for the investment most quality cue builders have in workspace, inventory and equipment would be $100-125 an hour. When he selects two shaft blanks at the 80-90% stage they will already have an hour apiece in them having been turned eight to twelve times. The butt wood has been in inventory with that cash tied up for several years or more, often much longer. Perhaps by mutual agreement of customer and cue builder a top quality butt blank was purchased. A good blank is pushing the price of some completed cues by unknown or little known builders.

From the time the cue butt is in blank state and the cue shafts are in 90% state, the cue builder will put in about twenty hours, not counting inlays or rings. This twenty hours will generally be spaced out for from a month to a year or more depending on the state the wood was in when the builder started. Fancy ornamentation can take five times that long or more and even some of the seemingly simple things can add many hours especially when added in as a change after the cue is started.

Any solid builder out there that sells a cue under two-thousand dollars is giving a better deal than a custom cabinet builder or most other woodworkers. A better deal than the man that works on your air conditioner or lawn mower, a better deal than pretty much any small shop you can name with the same investment in shop space, inventory, and hard earned expertise. It is also reasonable to expect to pay a surcharge for talent that doesn't apply to a skilled craftsman. Many cues are a work of art. Other artists aren't paid purely for their technical expertise and neither should that be more than the starting point in calculating the price of a cue.

If a solid cue builder wants a third to a half down to pay for his inventory and the fact he may be a year away from getting paid in full for the work he is doing today I'd give it to him without a murmur. I have done just that dealing with other builders.

If you don't trust a cue builder enough to give him a third to a half down, why the hell are you dealing with him?

I built a cue shop, bought lathes and other tooling including CNC, bought wood to get my river of wood started, did some minor work but never built the first cue for anyone else. I just didn't need the headache. I made the mistake of putting my shop next door to a short run jobshop machine shop. I could walk next door with no investment, not dealing with toxic fumes that play a part in the death of many cue builders and other wood workers, and make more than I can building custom cues. No customers calling twice a week just to visit on the phone, no fighting with suppliers botching my orders, none of the headaches of running a small business.

Every customer with work in progress thinks that they should be free to call and talk fifteen, thirty minutes, or longer whenever they are in the mood. A few dozen customers doing that and there is no time left to work but a customer gets highly indignant if told someone doesn't have time to talk. They would really crap a brick if phone time was added to the invoice! Then there are the dreamers. They will call and talk an hour daydreaming about a cue they will never have built, can't begin to afford. A few weeks later they will call with a whole new idea for a cue, equally beyond their means. They are just enjoying their fantasies on the cue builder's time.

If I added them up I have owned about a dozen small businesses. That is the reason I don't build cues. Too much business experience to step into that snake pit! If I ever take a notion to build any I'll build then on spec and offer them after they are built. Not likely to happen though, lost my river of wood in a hurricane.

Hu
 

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i always offer to send a deposit even though most cue makers knw i always pay

sometimes the cue makers need the money or assurance,this is no reason to run

jerry rauenzahn always gets deposits and he is the most reliable cue maker in the world
bob owen gets deposits and he is mr integrity

paul drexler is as good as it gets,i heard his wife had some huge bills so i paid in advance,not that he needs money ,but it is sometimes nice to see a bad streak turn around

i guess each deal is unique,ask your cue maker,and don't be afraid of a deposit for a custom cue

it is good business for most people,i took deposits on the schon tributes just to make sure
my buyers were serious.

i have been pleased with almost every cue maker i dealt with
 

Runnintable

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hu and Lake

Hu with a great reply.

Lake...recommendation to check Prather site is good one as well.
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
most of these cue builders that screw folks are ones operating out of their house and dont have a reputation built. and the people that use them are doing it only as a way to save money on a cue thinking they get the same quality or a quick build.

as for most things you dont get paid for your inventory in advance you get paid upon delivery of the goods. custom is of course a little different but if you are a good cue builder and building cues that sell if a customer backs out you can sell easily.

and no initial deposit needed just a deposit as you start and can send a pic of what you are using that you have bought for him. asking for a deposit and being a year or more away and months before even starting is wrong.
 

L I F D 1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What's the usual down payment to a cue builder for a custom cue?

Mike F - I looked at your aZ signature.
Tim Scruggs, Alex brick, JB case, modified Predator, Palmer

those are steep credentials, i'm surprised the question stems from an experienced person
 

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i disagree with the idea that custom cue makers working out of the house are
suspect

Balabushka,Szamboti,(gus and barry)

South west cues,petersen,libra,rauenzahn,pfd drexler are just a few of the greatones who at least started out of the house
hulsey,vigus,bob runde in case some of the first ones seem antiquated

i think it safe to say that custom cue making is a cottage industry

and it is a tough business,sales can be irregular and deposits are a commercial neccessity

dealers may prefer that you don't order direct,they think you shoulsd pay them an extra fee because they have the cues in stock

it may agree with you prejudice to not place a deposit,but without one i would not do business with you,it might not be large or it might not be,but that is the nature of the business

it pays to buy direct,customize your order and save money by dealing direct

if i didn't believe this , why would i put up deposits,or at least offer to

i have found cue makers appreciate consideration and they show it with good service and extra
benefits to me
 

RichSchultz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mike F - I looked at your aZ signature.
Tim Scruggs, Alex brick, JB case, modified Predator, Palmer

those are steep credentials, i'm surprised the question stems from an experienced person
Did he say he bought all of those new from the maker??
 

MikeF

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mike F - I looked at your aZ signature.
Tim Scruggs, Alex brick, JB case, modified Predator, Palmer

those are steep credentials, i'm surprised the question stems from an experienced person

I started playing again 4 years ago this July after quitting for about 36 years, & I'm 66. I played sporty when young & the Model J Palmer, picked up in late '74, was my cue. When I started back, oh how the world of billiards has changed, lol.

The "modified Predator" is just a BK2 break cue.
 
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