Pool on TV - a fantasy

Icon of Sin

I can't fold, I need gold. I re-up and reload...
Silver Member
Eating 71 hotdogs is amazing to everyone.

Playing great pool is amazing only to pool players.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Yesterday I was at a 4th of July party, and up on the big screen was the annual Nathan's 4th of July hot dog eating competition in Coney Island. It was on ESPN. The winner, 12-time champion, ate 71 hotdogs in 10 minutes. He holds the world record at 74 hotdogs!

I watched this messy event, along with a party of others, and I couldn't help think, "ESPN shows this, but not professional pool."

Anyway, today I was browsing YouTube matches and came across a very good example of why I think pool died in major broadcasting.

This clip is from the IPT 2005 8ball King of the Hill Championship, Mike Sigel vs Efren Reyes. I watched 10 minutes of it and had already had enough of the bs commentating. There were 3 commentators, each taking turns making up rediculous things to say, so rediculous that about any pool player would recognize the stupidity. One of the commentators was a pro player, yet she chimes in with plenty of over-the-top dumbing down, I suppose for the benefit of non pool players watching the match at home. Just watch and listen for a couple of minutes beginning at 08:32. Keep in mind that when ESPN shows football, baseball, golf, or ANYTHING else, the commentators are not dumbing it down with too much explanation, not pretending a lucky occurrence is the result of miraculous skill, not inventing excuses for errors or making up historical facts to justify simple mistakes.

https://youtu.be/U_a2zMFGMQE?t=512s

I had had enough of it because I'm a player myself and I found the comments to be too annoying, so I put my tv on mute. But if I wasn't a player I think I would've changed the channel because the commentators give this false impression that what these pros are doing is just so incredible that no other pool players could do it. If I were an eager young man listening to these comments, thinking I'd like to learn how to play, I'd believe I'd say, "Damn, I'll never be that good!"

Does anyone else think that honest commentary, where mistakes are acknowledged and not glossed over with pure fantasy and excuses, would make televised pool more realistic, more down to earth for average viewers? Or is this old clip just a rare exception of poor commentating?

I have one question for you. Who was the paid advertisers during this event? Maybe that'll answer why pool is not on TV anymore.
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
Makes sense. But it just killed me to hear Loree Jon Jones agree with the 2 non players when they said that Efren purposely played that 5 off the 11. Or when they justified the miss on the 3 ball by saying the table was "traditional" with tight pockets, like Mosconi and Fats used to play on. Lol.

How about when she said 8 ball was "the most difficult of all games" or something close to that. I almost threw up in my mouth. Seriously?

At least I *think* she said that on this particular vid. I saw it a few years ago and I have no compulsion to go watch it again to see for sure.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Good question. Funny thing is, I don't remember ANY of the commercials! Lol. How's that for effective advertising??!!
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Good question. Funny thing is, I don't remember ANY of the commercials! Lol. How's that for effective advertising??!!

Without advertisers, this sport is forced to pay the air time for TV viewership out of it's own cash bank....wait a minute, what cash bank is that??? Without organization in this sport, how would any advertisers see ANY kind of return on their PAID advertising dollars? Is this sport really organized enough to draw in the advertising business world? Not a chance in hell!!
 

JazzyJeff87

AzB Plutonium Member
Silver Member
How about when she said 8 ball was "the most difficult of all games" or something close to that. I almost threw up in my mouth. Seriously?

At least I *think* she said that on this particular vid. I saw it a few years ago and I have no compulsion to go watch it again to see for sure.

Well the reason it’s the hardest game is because you have to shoot ALL of your colors in BEFORE you can shoot the 8 in. So you can’t just randomly shoot it in at any time and win like in 9 ball.

Now in one pocket you need to make 8 balls...like in 8 ball BUT you can shoot solid,stripe,or 8 in at any time so it’s much easier. The whole “1 pocket” part is just...not that difficult.

14.1...any ball in any pocket? For my do-re-mi I’ll take it, forget about it.

Then there’s the simple fringe games. Banks? Come on people..angle in, angle out...any colored ball..child’s play. Snooker? They spot balls in perfect position to continually break out the reds, plenty of open space to work...got nothing on 8B.

2 player Cut Throat...well I’ve got nothing there...she’d have said that’s the actual toughest game if only it had been invented at the time.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
And all of you making comments is part of the reason there's no organized Professional Pool Players organization in this sport.....because you're all such experts at criticizing this game if ANYONE else is playing, or commenting the game, because no one can do it better than ANY of you people can, only thing is....none of you was commenting OR playing, what a shame....the world missed out on hearing the best commentors AND players!! You all missed your calling😂🤣 only thing is, even if ALL of you got together to promote this sport, it still wouldn't e any more organized than it is today, and ALL of you together still couldn't pull in a sponsor!! You people can't even watch a damn commercial about selling a CAR without critiquing the pool trick shots during the commercials🤣😂😂😂.....because you're ALL the BEST!!!
 

JazzyJeff87

AzB Plutonium Member
Silver Member
Thanks bub. And with the best table mechanic we’ll have a team of superstars. Only if you join the rest of us lowly folk
 

JazzyJeff87

AzB Plutonium Member
Silver Member
Haven't you heard, "The hardest jobs in the world, are made easy by all those that don't have to do them"!!

Lol I hadn’t heard that one before but it’s 100%

I almost always run out watching pool. Commentating probably not so much though, I’m not a chit chatter in real life.

No one really knows why pool doesn’t catch on in most places, it just don’t click with most and those that it does click with just can’t fathom such an outlook. Football over pool? Insanity to me but I’m in the minor. I think if we had at least one Jeremy Jones in the commentators booth at all times, and hopefully someone else with either a good voice, vast pool knowledge, character or a mix of these, pool could command at least high school respect.
 

sixpack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And all of you making comments is part of the reason there's no organized Professional Pool Players organization in this sport.....because you're all such experts at criticizing this game if ANYONE else is playing, or commenting the game, because no one can do it better than ANY of you people can, only thing is....none of you was commenting OR playing, what a shame....the world missed out on hearing the best commentors AND players!! You all missed your calling😂🤣 only thing is, even if ALL of you got together to promote this sport, it still wouldn't e any more organized than it is today, and ALL of you together still couldn't pull in a sponsor!! You people can't even watch a damn commercial about selling a CAR without critiquing the pool trick shots during the commercials🤣😂😂😂.....because you're ALL the BEST!!!

I commentated a big match once. I loved it! But I wasn’t very good at it. There is a very real skill to commentating and commentating pool is harder than other sports in my opinion.
 

megatron69

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Poker took off because of the $$$$$ to be won. Pool was popular pre-casino days. Once casinos were on every block pool suffered badly. Also the players themselves kinda shot themselves in the foot more than once. What pool REALLY needs(especially here in US) is young players. I live in what was once a serious pool hotbed and currently there are NO players under the age of 20. Nobody. If the next generation don't arrive quick pool is in bad shape. From what i hear its the same pretty much nationwide. VERY few players younger than 30, most older than that by quite a bit.

I've had this conversation dozens of times. Bottom line: pool is almost wholly cerebral; the real action takes place in the players' heads.

But even if that weren't a major problem, it's still boring because the players are boring. It's like watching motorcycle racing.

You ever notice that bowling is still popular on TV? Or that NASCAR is the most popular televised sport? Did you notice that the players in pro bowling are for the most part pretty 'out there' in their manner (and hairstyles)? Or that when WSOP was getting started they were inundated with "characters" for players? Like that older gent with the cowboy hat, or the genius math guy that wouldn't shut up? Or the scary-looking Asian guy who looked like a Vietnamese Mafia don?

People want to root for someone because of their personality. Not because of what equipment they use, or even how great they are at their sport. We're Americans. And Americans want to see two things: an underdog win and a quirky personality.

Just look at the Golden Age of any popular sport and it's the same thing over and over. John McEnroe vs Jimmy Connors. Maybe the two best players of their time, maybe not. But the personality clashes and the over-the-top drama had people glued to their TVs. Magic vs. Bird. Earnhardt vs. Jeff Gordon. Good guy vs. bad guy mythos stuff.

Now look at pool. I don't even watch men's pool much anymore even on YT; outside of a couple players it's just boring. I used to watch women's pool a lot when Jeanette Lee was playing full time, because she had a temper, and thereby a personality. I could relate to her and so root for her. On the other hand, while I could respect and admire both Allison Fisher and Karen Corr, they bored me to tears. It was like watching robots play pool.

Heck, look at the NBA right now. The best player in the world is LeBron James, without question. But the most popular player is Stephon Curry. Why? it's not because he hits the most 3s; there are two players in the league that hit them more consistently. And he's not the best player by a long shot; his game is too limited.

It's his wide-open personality. It's the fact that fans relate to him much more easily than they do to LeBron.

For pool to be watchable on TV, or rather for pool to attract the casual TV fan, there has to be personalities and drama. how they go about creating drama, I don't know.

But first we have to get players in front of the camera that fans want to root for. That doesn't mean players that are just great; as avid pool players most of us could watch pool with the sound off and still appreciate a good shot/game/whatever. Pool needs "CHARACTERS" that are both good and are relate-able.

And ideally a bad guy, a la Earl Strickland (John McEnroe, Dale Earnhardt Sr., etc.)
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I've had this conversation dozens of times. Bottom line: pool is almost wholly cerebral; the real action takes place in the players' heads.

But even if that weren't a major problem, it's still boring because the players are boring. It's like watching motorcycle racing.

You ever notice that bowling is still popular on TV? Or that NASCAR is the most popular televised sport? Did you notice that the players in pro bowling are for the most part pretty 'out there' in their manner (and hairstyles)? Or that when WSOP was getting started they were inundated with "characters" for players? Like that older gent with the cowboy hat, or the genius math guy that wouldn't shut up? Or the scary-looking Asian guy who looked like a Vietnamese Mafia don?

People want to root for someone because of their personality. Not because of what equipment they use, or even how great they are at their sport. We're Americans. And Americans want to see two things: an underdog win and a quirky personality.

Just look at the Golden Age of any popular sport and it's the same thing over and over. John McEnroe vs Jimmy Connors. Maybe the two best players of their time, maybe not. But the personality clashes and the over-the-top drama had people glued to their TVs. Magic vs. Bird. Earnhardt vs. Jeff Gordon. Good guy vs. bad guy mythos stuff.

Now look at pool. I don't even watch men's pool much anymore even on YT; outside of a couple players it's just boring. I used to watch women's pool a lot when Jeanette Lee was playing full time, because she had a temper, and thereby a personality. I could relate to her and so root for her. On the other hand, while I could respect and admire both Allison Fisher and Karen Corr, they bored me to tears. It was like watching robots play pool.

Heck, look at the NBA right now. The best player in the world is LeBron James, without question. But the most popular player is Stephon Curry. Why? it's not because he hits the most 3s; there are two players in the league that hit them more consistently. And he's not the best player by a long shot; his game is too limited.

It's his wide-open personality. It's the fact that fans relate to him much more easily than they do to LeBron.

For pool to be watchable on TV, or rather for pool to attract the casual TV fan, there has to be personalities and drama. how they go about creating drama, I don't know.

But first we have to get players in front of the camera that fans want to root for. That doesn't mean players that are just great; as avid pool players most of us could watch pool with the sound off and still appreciate a good shot/game/whatever. Pool needs "CHARACTERS" that are both good and are relate-able.

And ideally a bad guy, a la Earl Strickland (John McEnroe, Dale Earnhardt Sr., etc.)

And just how does that draw a sponsor to pay for advertising???
 

ThinSlice

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And just how does that draw a sponsor to pay for advertising???



Because you draw a crowd or a following of such. When you catch the eye of a sponsor and they see value in your product then it starts. The pool sponsors of today are chump change compared to what it could be. For instance can you imagine Nike making a pool glove? You would have 65% of the players playing with them and up and coming new players buying them before they reach serious pool. Or maybe a line of shoes that are comfortable under the long standing conditions of pool? There are many things that can be done to get a sponsor if one was so inclined.

But, then again there is always glue money that can fund the broadcasting of pool.


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 

RiverCity

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Because you draw a crowd or a following of such. When you catch the eye of a sponsor and they see value in your product then it starts. The pool sponsors of today are chump change compared to what it could be. For instance can you imagine Nike making a pool glove? You would have 65% of the players playing with them and up and coming new players buying them before they reach serious pool. Or maybe a line of shoes that are comfortable under the long standing conditions of pool? There are many things that can be done to get a sponsor if one was so inclined.

But, then again there is always glue money that can fund the broadcasting of pool.


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

There isnt enough money in making pool gloves or some kind of 'special shoes for pool' for a company like Nike etc.

What advertisers look for is viewership numbers. Its a game of odds. If 1000 people watch something, the return on investment of running $500k worth of commercials isnt there.

It 100,000 people watch it, its still not there, getting closer, but not there. Poker used to draw close to 1 million viewers on ESPN, and has been trending down. In 2017, this chart shows 700k+

2017-07-17_ESPN-768x505.gif


TV in general is dying off with the advent of streaming services. Most major tv studios/networks are looking into and making their own streaming channels for platforms like Roku and AppleTV etc.

What does this mean? Advertising is changing as well. Budweiser, Miller, Nike etc etc etc will be spending their advertising money where they feel it will be seen by the most viewers, to give them the biggest increase in sales they can achieve.

Pool isnt going to get there. Sorry. I love this game, and have so for 40+ years.

But thinking that its going to magically do something while still following the same tried and failed tournament model is foolish at best.

To get viewers, it needs to appeal to the league players, in a format (ie team/points/season format) that they can relate to. There are millions of league players in this country who have no clue who most of the pro players are. So why should they care, or watch.

The audience they (the people trying to put pool on television) want is not the audience they need.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Because you draw a crowd or a following of such. When you catch the eye of a sponsor and they see value in your product then it starts. The pool sponsors of today are chump change compared to what it could be. For instance can you imagine Nike making a pool glove? You would have 65% of the players playing with them and up and coming new players buying them before they reach serious pool. Or maybe a line of shoes that are comfortable under the long standing conditions of pool? There are many things that can be done to get a sponsor if one was so inclined.

But, then again there is always glue money that can fund the broadcasting of pool.


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

It's always easier to spend someone else's money rather than to spend your own isn't it? Why would I want to spend my own hard earned money just to provide YOU some kind of form of entertainment, on a system that is so u organized that no one else will touch it to sponsor it?
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
There isnt enough money in making pool gloves or some kind of 'special shoes for pool' for a company like Nike etc.

What advertisers look for is viewership numbers. Its a game of odds. If 1000 people watch something, the return on investment of running $500k worth of commercials isnt there.

It 100,000 people watch it, its still not there, getting closer, but not there. Poker used to draw close to 1 million viewers on ESPN, and has been trending down. In 2017, this chart shows 700k+

2017-07-17_ESPN-768x505.gif


TV in general is dying off with the advent of streaming services. Most major tv studios/networks are looking into and making their own streaming channels for platforms like Roku and AppleTV etc.

What does this mean? Advertising is changing as well. Budweiser, Miller, Nike etc etc etc will be spending their advertising money where they feel it will be seen by the most viewers, to give them the biggest increase in sales they can achieve.

Pool isnt going to get there. Sorry. I love this game, and have so for 40+ years.

But thinking that its going to magically do something while still following the same tried and failed tournament model is foolish at best.

To get viewers, it needs to appeal to the league players, in a format (ie team/points/season format) that they can relate to. There are millions of league players in this country who have no clue who most of the pro players are. So why should they care, or watch.

The audience they (the people trying to put pool on television) want is not the audience they need.

Bingo, someone understands!! But there IS definitely a way to straighten this sport out, and bring millions of dollars in prize money into it for the players, if which I'm working on right now......but it's not with my glue sales money!!!
 

DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bingo, someone understands!! But there IS definitely a way to straighten this sport out, and bring millions of dollars in prize money into it for the players, if which I'm working on right now......but it's not with my glue sales money!!!

I always thought it was as simple as convincing the Poker people to carry pool around in their purse like a pet....more as a favor than a business opportunity.
 

megatron69

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And just how does that draw a sponsor to pay for advertising???

The point I was making is that you first have to have a sell-able product on the screen. If you have that, then you can attract advertising dollars, which is where the money is.

The reason the big national sports can afford to pay their players tens of millions of dollars is because of TV advertising. No one gets paid $200 million/6 years without the billions of advertising dollars the sport gets from TV.

And to get that TV money, you need a sell-able TV product; an event that the average beer-drinking, pizza-eating, football-watching American will be compelled to turn on and watch, otherwise TV sponsors will never get on board, no matter how good your players are. Once you have a great TV show, sponsors will fall over themselves finding products they can advertise during your game/event.

And that starts with interesting players. Does anyone remember Vivian Villarreal, the "Texas Tornado"? I remember when I was a marketing manager about twenty years ago watching her play a few times on TV and thinking "this chick would be easy to sponsor. She's really identifiable." She was a loud, passionate personality, and on the table she was a risk-taker, which made her games more dramatic, in spite of the fact that she rarely seemed to make it into the final round.

But from the POV of a marketing director, I could easily see throwing more money at her than say, Karen Corr, because the casual fan would be more easily drawn to her. And if she won, well there's your "underdog" story, which would mean more revenue generated.

Bottom line, American pool has a perception problem. Without the personalities/characters/drama TV sponsors aren't going to throw money at it.
 
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