never mind
Okay, not to be dissuaded by the lack of interest in the original subject...I'll change it slightly. Still related to the original topic, as it involves refinishing two war-time Hoppe Pro cues, and pics of each will follow.
The following is mostly for my own documentation and to refer friends to who are refinishing antique cues, so if it bores you, I completely understand. If not, I welcome discussion.
I have purchased 7 antique cues in the last month, so I guess I've become 're-interested' in them. While digging around in this forum, looking for examples of old M26 1/2 cues, I found two beauties that, sadly, had been converted. If you own a cue, it's your right to do what you want with it, but here are my thoughts:
A few conversions I've had done by an expert cue-maker:
Two 'saves' (I, of course, did not do the work):
Effects of lacquer on wood color over 90 years
With my first cue pick-up, I immediately ran into an interesting exception to my own 'rules': Model 26 1/2, all original, unstained silk wrap (rare without stains), MOP wedge, 3/4" ivory butt (one crack), straight shaft, no damage...basically, it looked to be unplayed - even had what looked like an original unchecked tip. Given that a name was etched into the MOP wedge, this was probably a gift cue that lived in a closet its entire life. Who in their right mind would do anything to such a cue? Well, me possibly - the slightly-yellow finish had combined with the wood below to give a greyish-brown appearance that was not very attractive. I knew from experience that this probably meant 'purple heart'. Imagining how beautiful the points and butt would be if refinished, bringing out the nearly 100-yr old Purpleheart colors, it's tough not do have it refinished. But for now I'm obeying my own rule and leaving it alone.
Dirt, blue chalk and maple
I also picked up two war-time cues, both with wretched finishes - the nasty bluish-grey maple forearm wood that is difficult to look at, and which I automatically put in the 'refinish' stack. One is ebony and the other is a nice rosewood (not Brazilian). Everything on the ebony cue was smooth as silk: points, joint-forearm interface, even the butt-ivory ring-buttplate. The wrap was salvageable. The rosewood cue had more bluing, discoloration (looked like heat stains) in the points, but other than very slight popping of the points, was fantastic. The main issues were the ugly bluish-grey maple in the forearm, a wrap that needed to be replaced, very crappy skinny shaft, and a slightly-bent pin. And the wood was not exotic.
Demise of Bullseye French polish - finding a replacement
For years I have been using Bullseye shellac 'French polish' to refinish such cues, but I gave my supplies away when I got out of the hobby, and to my dismay, this product has been discontinued. Bullseye still makes shellac, but the instructions are for wiping on and letting dry, not 'french polishing' which involves constant rubbing. The actual shellac liquid looks different as well, so I haven't tried it on anything yet (but I plan to). Attempting to get the hand-rubbed 'french polish' look, I tried a new technique on the rosewood cue and failed miserably. It involved Danish oil to start (which was fine), followed by a wipe-on called 'Restore a Finish', then Renaissance wax. The result was a cue with nice grain showing due to the Danish Oil, but otherwise very dull. This was entirely my fault, but I knew it could be 'un-done' - 'Restore a Finish' is for cleaning up damaged finishes, not really for creating a new finish. When the result wasn't good, I tried to add some lustre using Renaissance Wax, and that was also a fail. There are good wipe-on poly's (Min-Wax), but the products I chose were inappropriate.
A Candidate Cue for refinishing
That cue put aside for later consideration, I tried something different with the ebony cue. The first consideration is always "Am I about to destroy a piece of history?" War-time cues are difficult to find, but this one had a few qualities that made me decide to refinish it: 1) very ugly forearm and overall bad original finish. 2) No label. The Brunswick labels are normally on top of the finish in the 1940's cues, so it's possible someone removed it, but there was no evidence. 3) Perfect construction (smooth everywhere) and no visible damage (not even a ding) to the wood beneath the finish, and you could just barely tell that there was probably some great figuring between the points. 4) thicker-than-normal ivory ring with no cracks. If it had had the label, I would have considered it a good enough example of a war-time ebony cue, and probably not touched it. But no label, along with all the other characteristics, told me that refinishing it would yield an amazing-looking cue.
Removing old finish
First step is always getting rid of the old finish. I used to use a stripper, then sand. I've found something that works much better: Magic Eraser with rubbing alcohol. The only real danger is rubbing the ink out of the 'Willie Hoppe' signature and weight stamp, but I've found that it's otherwise a very simple technique and much less-intrusive than prior methods;i.e-you are not removing any wood. Once the finish is off, use alcohol to clean up and prepare the surface appropriately for whatever finish you choose to apply.
Min-Wax rub-on poly & Rottenstone
Still looking for a rub-on product that would give the 'french polish' results I prefer, I tried Min-wax rub-on poly, after two coats of neutral Danish Oil (to seal and bring out the grain from inside the wood). Three rubbed-on coats with light sanding between each, then intense buffing, gave a pretty good result, but not what I wanted. My antique cue-collecting buddy, Joe G., recommended a set of products, along with a book by Alan Fitchett: 'Wood repair finishing refinishing'. Based on the book and conversations with Joe, I sanded lightly with 400grit and non-blooming oil, wiped clean, then went after it with rottenstone, first testing on the butt. The result was exactly what I was looking for, but a LOT more work than the old Bullseye french polish product: a smooth, shiny satin finish, similar to the satin plain janes SW used to make, but not quite as shiny.
The rosewood cue will be re-done with either padding lacquer or shellac (both hand-rubbed finishes), followed by rottenstone.
'Before and After' pics of both cues to follow.
Okay, not to be dissuaded by the lack of interest in the original subject...I'll change it slightly. Still related to the original topic, as it involves refinishing two war-time Hoppe Pro cues, and pics of each will follow.
The following is mostly for my own documentation and to refer friends to who are refinishing antique cues, so if it bores you, I completely understand. If not, I welcome discussion.
I have purchased 7 antique cues in the last month, so I guess I've become 're-interested' in them. While digging around in this forum, looking for examples of old M26 1/2 cues, I found two beauties that, sadly, had been converted. If you own a cue, it's your right to do what you want with it, but here are my thoughts:
- if a cue is rare, only make necessary repairs
- if a cue is not rare, but it looks nice, leave it original - don't even re-wrap
- if a cue is not rare, and it looks crappy, do what you have to do.
- let experts do the work if you are in doubt as to your own abilities, as opposed to taking a chance and ruining something
- Titlist conversions are getting out of hand - too many crappy to average cue makers are using them as practice pieces. I know, I've given them the benefit of the doubt and bought a few. If you have to do it, use a crappy cue with decent wood and a thick joint. It's more cost-effective for you, and it leaves the better Titlists for those who are happy to do less to them.
- there are exceptions to all of the above
A few conversions I've had done by an expert cue-maker:
- beat-up 2-piece 1960's Hoppe Pro, 'Willie Hoppe' name saved and ivory ring added.
- Nice oak 1-piece that had just enough good wood to yield a beautiful Hoppe Pro re-creation, 'Willie Hoppe' name and weight-stamp saved
- Nearly-destroyed common-wood 1-piece Titlist, converted to a fancy 2-piece with inlays and ivory joint
Two 'saves' (I, of course, did not do the work):
- ebony M26 1/2 2-piece with severe butt damage, large crack in butt (this all sounds terrible, I know), no joint. Re-created a 1910's ivory-jointed M26 1/2, wide butt and all, adding ivory ring and black butt-plate (after checking to make sure they were valid options in the 1910's).
- M26 1/2 with bad butt-crack and severe damage to some butt veneers and veneered butt-plate. Repaired all damage, refinished the cue with a satin finish, created a new shaft.
Effects of lacquer on wood color over 90 years
With my first cue pick-up, I immediately ran into an interesting exception to my own 'rules': Model 26 1/2, all original, unstained silk wrap (rare without stains), MOP wedge, 3/4" ivory butt (one crack), straight shaft, no damage...basically, it looked to be unplayed - even had what looked like an original unchecked tip. Given that a name was etched into the MOP wedge, this was probably a gift cue that lived in a closet its entire life. Who in their right mind would do anything to such a cue? Well, me possibly - the slightly-yellow finish had combined with the wood below to give a greyish-brown appearance that was not very attractive. I knew from experience that this probably meant 'purple heart'. Imagining how beautiful the points and butt would be if refinished, bringing out the nearly 100-yr old Purpleheart colors, it's tough not do have it refinished. But for now I'm obeying my own rule and leaving it alone.
Dirt, blue chalk and maple
I also picked up two war-time cues, both with wretched finishes - the nasty bluish-grey maple forearm wood that is difficult to look at, and which I automatically put in the 'refinish' stack. One is ebony and the other is a nice rosewood (not Brazilian). Everything on the ebony cue was smooth as silk: points, joint-forearm interface, even the butt-ivory ring-buttplate. The wrap was salvageable. The rosewood cue had more bluing, discoloration (looked like heat stains) in the points, but other than very slight popping of the points, was fantastic. The main issues were the ugly bluish-grey maple in the forearm, a wrap that needed to be replaced, very crappy skinny shaft, and a slightly-bent pin. And the wood was not exotic.
Demise of Bullseye French polish - finding a replacement
For years I have been using Bullseye shellac 'French polish' to refinish such cues, but I gave my supplies away when I got out of the hobby, and to my dismay, this product has been discontinued. Bullseye still makes shellac, but the instructions are for wiping on and letting dry, not 'french polishing' which involves constant rubbing. The actual shellac liquid looks different as well, so I haven't tried it on anything yet (but I plan to). Attempting to get the hand-rubbed 'french polish' look, I tried a new technique on the rosewood cue and failed miserably. It involved Danish oil to start (which was fine), followed by a wipe-on called 'Restore a Finish', then Renaissance wax. The result was a cue with nice grain showing due to the Danish Oil, but otherwise very dull. This was entirely my fault, but I knew it could be 'un-done' - 'Restore a Finish' is for cleaning up damaged finishes, not really for creating a new finish. When the result wasn't good, I tried to add some lustre using Renaissance Wax, and that was also a fail. There are good wipe-on poly's (Min-Wax), but the products I chose were inappropriate.
A Candidate Cue for refinishing
That cue put aside for later consideration, I tried something different with the ebony cue. The first consideration is always "Am I about to destroy a piece of history?" War-time cues are difficult to find, but this one had a few qualities that made me decide to refinish it: 1) very ugly forearm and overall bad original finish. 2) No label. The Brunswick labels are normally on top of the finish in the 1940's cues, so it's possible someone removed it, but there was no evidence. 3) Perfect construction (smooth everywhere) and no visible damage (not even a ding) to the wood beneath the finish, and you could just barely tell that there was probably some great figuring between the points. 4) thicker-than-normal ivory ring with no cracks. If it had had the label, I would have considered it a good enough example of a war-time ebony cue, and probably not touched it. But no label, along with all the other characteristics, told me that refinishing it would yield an amazing-looking cue.
Removing old finish
First step is always getting rid of the old finish. I used to use a stripper, then sand. I've found something that works much better: Magic Eraser with rubbing alcohol. The only real danger is rubbing the ink out of the 'Willie Hoppe' signature and weight stamp, but I've found that it's otherwise a very simple technique and much less-intrusive than prior methods;i.e-you are not removing any wood. Once the finish is off, use alcohol to clean up and prepare the surface appropriately for whatever finish you choose to apply.
Min-Wax rub-on poly & Rottenstone
Still looking for a rub-on product that would give the 'french polish' results I prefer, I tried Min-wax rub-on poly, after two coats of neutral Danish Oil (to seal and bring out the grain from inside the wood). Three rubbed-on coats with light sanding between each, then intense buffing, gave a pretty good result, but not what I wanted. My antique cue-collecting buddy, Joe G., recommended a set of products, along with a book by Alan Fitchett: 'Wood repair finishing refinishing'. Based on the book and conversations with Joe, I sanded lightly with 400grit and non-blooming oil, wiped clean, then went after it with rottenstone, first testing on the butt. The result was exactly what I was looking for, but a LOT more work than the old Bullseye french polish product: a smooth, shiny satin finish, similar to the satin plain janes SW used to make, but not quite as shiny.
The rosewood cue will be re-done with either padding lacquer or shellac (both hand-rubbed finishes), followed by rottenstone.
'Before and After' pics of both cues to follow.
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