Would action in the pool scene be non existent without backers?

A player organization lead by a business man/woman. A national tour and the money, TV and sponsors will come. It's always sickening to me, watching top tier players having to get staked for some $100 sets. At this time 95% of the pros need at least a part time job...but that's a dirty word to most of them. Johnnyt

justinb386 said:

I understand that traveling expenses used to be cheap enough to where players could afford to take long road trips all over the US, and maybe even afford to back themselves in tournaments and money games, but those days are long gone.

Click to expand...

Why are those days long gone? Travel expenses haven't inflated significantly over other things, have they? So, it must be that the payoffs aren't big enough. Have the Earl's (from CoM) of the world gotten smarter? More frugal?

Without rich players willing to lose a pro's daily pay in an evening, it is just pro players trading money. No one can live on that. Perhaps it is this expectation of money games, that are killing pool off? No other professional sport has players directly betting on themselves.

Mosconi supported himself doing (sponsored) exhibitions. Is this now gone, since we can see more pool than we have time for, free, on the internet? How about lessons? Private in-your-home lessons would seem to be a untapped market. Skyped lessons are another possibility.

Thank you kindly.

Corwyn_8 said:

Perhaps it is this expectation of money games, that are killing pool off? No other professional sport has players directly betting on themselves.

Click to expand...

Ridiculous, isn't it? Yeah, of course no one can make a living if it's just people betting on themselves. Where does new money come from?

You know what this game needs? A reality TV program that follows these guys around, makes up all sorts of drama and controversy (not that they would really need to make up much). Remember what happened to cooking shows before someone got the bright idea to tape Gordon Ramsay's head exploding every 5 minutes? All of a sudden we have prime time freaking cooking shows.

What the heck...if you can't beat'em, join'em. That whole SVB/Orcollu kerfuffle just by itself could have made the season. You know, I'm half kidding but only half kidding. Legitimize it later. For now, just get money flowing in, and believe me if you're a producer and can't somehow make a reality show around all the crazies in the pool world, you need to hang it up and find something else to do.

I await my royalty checks, thank you.

Johnnyt said:

A player organization lead by a business man/woman. A national tour and the money, TV and sponsors will come. It's always sickening to me, watching top tier players having to get staked for some $100 sets. At this time 95% of the pros need at least a part time job...but that's a dirty word to most of them. Johnnyt

Click to expand...

Just trying to get this straight.

You think an Organization is going to draw TV and sponsors, to a sport that has a viewer base that is pretty much non existent?

Maybe I'm reading this wrong.
I doubt 1 out of 100 could name a professional pool player in the States.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Just to continue the thought, if you could somehow get Strickland involved, it's hard to imagine how you could possibly screw this up. Even better, have a couple of episodes where Strickland tries teaching Ramsay how to play pool, and Ramsay teaches Strickland how to cook. That would be epic.

sonny_burnett said:

Just trying to get this straight.

You think an Organization is going to draw TV and sponsors, to a sport that has a viewer base that is pretty much non existent?

Maybe I'm reading this wrong.
I doubt 1 out of 100 could name a professional pool player in the States.

Click to expand...

How many professional cooks can you name?

1

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I doubt it

The pro pool world when you compare it to other pro events is a screwed up mess as far as making a bunch of money goes and I don't see it changing in my life time.

Why should gambling on a match be a deciding factor in the success of the pro pool industry? If it is then small wonder there is no money in pool.

I don't know how any small time custom cue maker could make a living building cues and sponsoring pro players. I think a pro player would play with about any well known cue makers cue when they first start out. If they hit the big time a bigger company will offer them more money/benefits to use their cues and a one or two man custom cue shop can't compete with that.

no stakehorses would put 90% of the so called pro players out of action immediately

almost every unemployed player would be broke
he could not even pay his time

the pool bums would only be bums
our false opinion of them as pro athletes would vanish

90 % is probably a way too low percent

of course I have only been involved in this world for about 59 years so my
opinion may be wrong
dc

A local SS went on the road back in the 60's when he was single and young. He went with another player. He gave it up because he said they really weren't making any money because most of it went to the expenses of being on the road.

He said it was fun, had a lot of sex, drinking, and etc but said it was nothing he wanted to do the rest of his life.

The only advantage back then over now is a player could go into a town and not be known. Today with the media word spreads fast for a player to remain unknown very long.

Any kind of gambling results in the same thing, money just keeps changing hands between all of the players. Eventually it disappears until a new bankroll comes in.

A interview with a professional poker player mentioned the same thing. He said they usually end up playing each other and just exchange money until a brand new player joins in with some "new" money. Very few put any away as money to them is just a vehicle to get some action.

Corwyn_8 said:

Why are those days long gone? Travel expenses haven't inflated significantly over other things, have they? So, it must be that the payoffs aren't big enough. Have the Earl's (from CoM) of the world gotten smarter? More frugal?

Without rich players willing to lose a pro's daily pay in an evening, it is just pro players trading money. No one can live on that. Perhaps it is this expectation of money games, that are killing pool off? No other professional sport has players directly betting on themselves.

Mosconi supported himself doing (sponsored) exhibitions. Is this now gone, since we can see more pool than we have time for, free, on the internet? How about lessons? Private in-your-home lessons would seem to be a untapped market. Skyped lessons are another possibility.

Thank you kindly.

Click to expand...

This is a good question that nobody has answered yet in this thread. But, an AZB member did give great insight into the "old tyme" living conditions a while back.

On this forum, a new member made a post last year looking for his old friends or someone that remembered him. He played in the 60's. Him and his buddy's posted some good stories. At the end of one of his stories (Circa 1960?), his road partners wanted to travel to Florida to hunt down a player who was betting big. He told them to get his luggage out because he was going to stay in Huston. They were betting $5-$10 games all day long. There was no way he was walking away from that gold mine. So he got himself a $10/week fully furnished apartment and stayed in town.

Yes the cost of living has exponentially skyrocketed. Players can't afford to bet high today. The cost of living was increased by taxation, government regulations, money printing (to pay for government debt) and tort lawsuits. All taken their toll on our living standards and on the pool hustling lifestyle. As a result of the exponential increase in the cost of living, traditional pool halls can't make it and the road player can't afford to eat.

My post isn't meant to start a political argument, but instead help expose the root cause of the demise of the pool world.

the pool players are not smart enough to hold on to their money for any length of time and are not smart enough to make money on the road. that is why they are broke.
if you cant make living expenses at any business you are not going to be in business for long.

players are lucky they can find suckers who admire them for some reason to fund their adventures.

Corwyn_8 said:

How many professional cooks can you name?

Click to expand...

If i asked my pool league buddies to name three famous chefs they would likely answer with Ramsey, Emeril and possibly Wolfgang Puck or Rachel Ray(they might stop at two names). If i asked the same group to name three pro pool players they would say Minnesota Fats, maybe Mosconi, but doubtful, and that would be it. Most wouldn't be able to name one.

Edit: I completely spaced on Jeanette Lee, they might know her or her nickname.

nateobot said:

If i asked my pool league buddies to name three famous chefs they would likely answer with Ramsey, Emeril and possibly Wolfgang Puck or Rachel Ray(they might stop at two names). If i asked the same group to name three pro pool players they would say Minnesota Fats, maybe Mosconi, but doubtful, and that would be it. Most wouldn't be able to name one.

Edit: I completely spaced on Jeanette Lee, they might know her or her nickname.

Click to expand...

They might know Miz and Sigel too. Guys like that were almost household names growing up. Varner, Strickland, Rempe...I knew all these guys before I got into pool, just like I know a bunch of boxers even though I'm totally not into boxing in the slightest. I think many people, including guys into pool, would have trouble naming a pro under 40, unless they happen to be into gambling on matches.

nateobot said:

If i asked my pool league buddies to name three famous chefs they would likely answer with Ramsey, Emeril and possibly Wolfgang Puck or Rachel Ray(they might stop at two names). If i asked the same group to name three pro pool players they would say Minnesota Fats, maybe Mosconi, but doubtful, and that would be it. Most wouldn't be able to name one.

Click to expand...

And what do you note about those cooks? On TV!

Did they have a viewer base BEFORE they went on TV? No.

So saying pool players should have a viewer base before they get put on TV seems a bit backwards.

Thank you kindly.

chevybob20 said:

Yes the cost of living has exponentially skyrocketed. Players can't afford to bet high today.

Click to expand...

That is exactly backwards. If the cost of living has increased, Road players need to increase their bets.

As an aside:
"Today's income tax rates are strikingly low relative to the rates of the past century, especially for rich people. For most of the century, including some boom times, top-bracket income tax rates were much higher than they are today." - Business Insider

Thank you kindly.

Corwyn_8 said:

And what do you note about those cooks? On TV!

Did they have a viewer base BEFORE they went on TV? No.

So saying pool players should have a viewer base before they get put on TV seems a bit backwards.

Thank you kindly.

Click to expand...

Yes, that is true. I would expect that if pool players were on TV, the people i mentioned would tune into watch. I am also surprised by the number of them that do not seek out videos on youtube or wherever.

Johnnyt said:

A player organization lead by a business man/woman. A national tour and the money, TV and sponsors will come. It's always sickening to me, watching top tier players having to get staked for some $100 sets. At this time 95% of the pros need at least a part time job...but that's a dirty word to most of them. Johnnyt

Click to expand...

That may be true however it will be a very select few ,, gambling pool in general is down by numbers that can't even be calculated , 20 COM movies won't. bring it back because theirs just so many other things to gamble on that pays better odds with out breaking a sweat
Go to any place that has pool tables and keno and keno dwarfs pool action many times over

Now if you get Donald trump on board willing to throw hundreds of millions against the wall as he's doing in his campaign he might be able put together somthing that will pay enough for players to at least own a car

1

Corwyn_8 said:

That is exactly backwards. If the cost of living has increased, Road players need to increase their bets.

As an aside:
"Today's income tax rates are strikingly low relative to the rates of the past century, especially for rich people. For most of the century, including some boom times, top-bracket income tax rates were much higher than they are today." - Business Insider

Thank you kindly.

Click to expand...

I see that you know only 25% of the picture. If all you can list is income taxes, your knowledge of government and taxes is so woefully lacking that a discussion on a pool forum would be useless.