Balabushka?... uhhh, Judges?
- Thread starter Runner
- Start date
If it has two real good shafts, everything straight, maybe $700.
More depending on who made the conversion.
I would not pay over $600 for that cue, and I don't care for unknown cues.
If it's not a Balabushka, then who could have made it and when?
It's strange to think they would take the care and have the knowledge to copy what they did while making an oversight like leaving the signature.
If I still gambled on cues, I'd consider taking a chance on it and wouldn't be surprised if it was authentic or maybe a very early Tasc.
It's strange to think they would take the care and have the knowledge to copy what they did while making an oversight like leaving the signature.
If I still gambled on cues, I'd consider taking a chance on it and wouldn't be surprised if it was authentic or maybe a very early Tasc.
Well, what the heck, here are my two cents. There are quite a few things that don't look Bushka.
Everyone has mentioned the Hoppe signature still on the blank. That would also be a first for me. The joint and shaft collars don't look proportional to what George usually did. Also, one joint collar is slightly thinner than the other, if you look close, wouldn't likely have been George's original product. Also, the top of the joint pin in finished a bit flat and short, for George's usual.
The shaft tapers look very strange for a Bushka. They look pretty conical, and I've never seen another original Bushka with that; just doesn't look right.
And if you had a genuine Bushka that could pass the test, wouldn't you put a fairly high reserve on it? Especially if you've owned the Golden Bushka?
A lot of cuemakers did Titlist conversions; they're sometimes not easy to pin down unless there's a signature. This one does have some age on it, so look for some of the older makers.
All the best,
WW
Everyone has mentioned the Hoppe signature still on the blank. That would also be a first for me. The joint and shaft collars don't look proportional to what George usually did. Also, one joint collar is slightly thinner than the other, if you look close, wouldn't likely have been George's original product. Also, the top of the joint pin in finished a bit flat and short, for George's usual.
The shaft tapers look very strange for a Bushka. They look pretty conical, and I've never seen another original Bushka with that; just doesn't look right.
And if you had a genuine Bushka that could pass the test, wouldn't you put a fairly high reserve on it? Especially if you've owned the Golden Bushka?
A lot of cuemakers did Titlist conversions; they're sometimes not easy to pin down unless there's a signature. This one does have some age on it, so look for some of the older makers.
All the best,
WW
I don't disagree, but let me break down how I get there.
I find it hard to go past $350 on an unknown Titlist conversion with one shaft, Hoppe or not.
Add $100 for the extra shaft and I am at $450. (OK maybe $125-$150 for a really nice old unknown shaft, but this is a package price I am working up)
Other aspects like green spec Cortland, ivory components, etc can push the value up.
The seller implies they are ivory ferrules.
It does have a KU bumper but it is trashed. I have plenty of brand new KU bumpers anyway, so it actually takes away from the value for me as I would put a new bumper on it.
So I am hitting up in that $550-$600 range.
But I wouldn't pay that much and I dig unknowns. :wink:
I'll say $150 for the butt and $100 for each shaft puts me at $350 for an unknown like this and it's hard to get me past that because I am a bargain hunter. :wink:
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Agreed...
I'll say $150 for the butt and $100 for each shaft puts me at $350 for an unknown like this and it's hard to get me past that because I am a bargain hunter. :wink:[/QUOTE]
Right there with you on the $$$ on that cue... when I initially looked at the listing, I was
like $350.. MAYBE $400... Hoppe butt that you might be able to re-convert, shafts would be a bonus. The joint and rings are no bueno... the pin might be usable.
I'll say $150 for the butt and $100 for each shaft puts me at $350 for an unknown like this and it's hard to get me past that because I am a bargain hunter. :wink:[/QUOTE]
Right there with you on the $$$ on that cue... when I initially looked at the listing, I was
like $350.. MAYBE $400... Hoppe butt that you might be able to re-convert, shafts would be a bonus. The joint and rings are no bueno... the pin might be usable.
If somebody likes to pay $500, $600, or $700 for an unknown simple Titlist conversion I might have a few cues to sell. And that's a huge statement coming from me.
I generally don't sell and keep what I have close to my vest. My wife does not even know what I have. I will admit I do not have a Balabushka...yet.
There would be less than a handful of people that I will let something go to if I have it and they "need" it, and they know who they are.
The rest think all I have is a few Cobra cues and my Joss.
Here is some visual pollution for you.
IMHO unless it is proven that thing is a GB, then it's just cue parts.
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If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh!t :thumbup:
The pin is completely wrong. Wrong grind on the front & wrong color. It's one looks like it hasn't even been polished.
Next is the brass joint. That looks pretty much identical to the modern steel joints except that it's brass, pretty much exactly like the ones Atlas sells. Add to this that the brass joint is quite shiny gold, not tarnished and browned like happens to brass with time. Even the face of the collar is quite pristine. There's no dirt or grime on the surface, which seem strange considering black phenolic gets ground on to it every time a shaft is screwed on.
From there I see that the phenolic is rather black where it isn't porous & full of sanding dust. Porosity & color are way off for the suggested time period. In those days there would have been areas of the phenolic that didn't take dye, so there would be light spots. The rest of the phenolic would be more of a charcoal grey, not jet black. Phenolic also used to be quite solid until the EPA dumbed it down to the porous, pitty stuff we have now. The stuff on that cue looks very recent. The only light spots I see are where the guy didn't clean the dust out before wiping with oil.
On to the veneers and overall patina. The veneers are vibrant and I see no chalk embedded in the grain. It appears to be a very, very recent oil finish. Oil will make the colors pop, like this cue shows, but with very little use it will attract a whole lot of dirt and chalk dust that dulls everything out. If it were old it would have obvious embedded chalk & debris, and the veneer colors would have faded dull.
The shafts have pilots that appear quite different. One has the beveled brass while the other has beveled wood. 50/50 chance of being correct maybe? Regardless, both appear modern. Maple rubbing against brass turns black, which I see none of.
Add it all up and the cue looks new & fake. The finish is perfectly fresh, no dings or scratches or dents, not even a spec of dirt. The wrap looks like a joke. I see that old white braided line all the time while searching for green spec Cortland, so the wrap isn't exactly a qualifier of age. The only thing that looks old is the bumper, which is a huge red flag. With all that wear & age the bumper shows, you'd think the cue has been used extensively. Why doesn't the rest of the cue match? Because it's a fraud. Nothing about that cue looks Balabushka to me except the sales pitch. Even if the butt was meticulously cared for, the shafts would mirror the age of the bumper, and they look brand new. Total fake.
The pin is completely wrong. Wrong grind on the front & wrong color. It's one looks like it hasn't even been polished.
Next is the brass joint. That looks pretty much identical to the modern steel joints except that it's brass, pretty much exactly like the ones Atlas sells. Add to this that the brass joint is quite shiny gold, not tarnished and browned like happens to brass with time. Even the face of the collar is quite pristine. There's no dirt or grime on the surface, which seem strange considering black phenolic gets ground on to it every time a shaft is screwed on.
From there I see that the phenolic is rather black where it isn't porous & full of sanding dust. Porosity & color are way off for the suggested time period. In those days there would have been areas of the phenolic that didn't take dye, so there would be light spots. The rest of the phenolic would be more of a charcoal grey, not jet black. Phenolic also used to be quite solid until the EPA dumbed it down to the porous, pitty stuff we have now. The stuff on that cue looks very recent. The only light spots I see are where the guy didn't clean the dust out before wiping with oil.
On to the veneers and overall patina. The veneers are vibrant and I see no chalk embedded in the grain. It appears to be a very, very recent oil finish. Oil will make the colors pop, like this cue shows, but with very little use it will attract a whole lot of dirt and chalk dust that dulls everything out. If it were old it would have obvious embedded chalk & debris, and the veneer colors would have faded dull.
The shafts have pilots that appear quite different. One has the beveled brass while the other has beveled wood. 50/50 chance of being correct maybe? Regardless, both appear modern. Maple rubbing against brass turns black, which I see none of.
Add it all up and the cue looks new & fake. The finish is perfectly fresh, no dings or scratches or dents, not even a spec of dirt. The wrap looks like a joke. I see that old white braided line all the time while searching for green spec Cortland, so the wrap isn't exactly a qualifier of age. The only thing that looks old is the bumper, which is a huge red flag. With all that wear & age the bumper shows, you'd think the cue has been used extensively. Why doesn't the rest of the cue match? Because it's a fraud. Nothing about that cue looks Balabushka to me except the sales pitch. Even if the butt was meticulously cared for, the shafts would mirror the age of the bumper, and they look brand new. Total fake.
What’s not to like? J/k 
I message'd the seller and indicated that I'd purchase it if he agreed to send it to Pete T. for verification and refund me 100% if it wasn't. He told me to get some "coaching" on what kind of cue this was and was generally a turd in his response.
100% fake - no question about it in my mind.
100% fake - no question about it in my mind.
well, anyone who bids outside of the last 10 seconds is still just figuring things out.
I'd definitely take odds and bet someone on this site buys the cue, and that it pops up in the not so far out future...or really get crazy and bet someone in this thread does :yes: The two biggest factors the cue has going for it is people curiosity and greed...its a hanger