What's Going On With Custom Cue Prices?

K

knifemakermike

Registered
Hi Guys,

I was once into collecting high-end cues (Scruggs, Josswest, Richard Black, etc) and had quite a collection before kids and marriage about 15 years ago. The market was pretty high back then but demand was good.

I started playing again about a year ago and looking for a real nice cue. It's been quite a journey with very conflicting information. Abundance of cues available from good makers and independent sellers (I would say very fair). Then there seems to be this artificially inflated prices on some higher end cues no one buys. Dealers getting mad you offer a price on a cue that has been sitting there for over a year. Prices that are completely out of sync with the market.

Are people really buying at some of these prices that are asked? I've seen people take some big hits when selling that is making me wonder who is making the money in these deals, I don't think it's the cuemakers.
 
Kevin Lindstrom

Kevin Lindstrom

14.1 Addict
Silver Member
knifemakermike said:
Hi Guys,

I was once into collecting high-end cues (Scruggs, Josswest, Richard Black, etc) and had quite a collection before kids and marriage about 15 years ago. The market was pretty high back then but demand was good.

I started playing again about a year ago and looking for a real nice cue. It's been quite a journey with very conflicting information. Abundance of cues available from good makers and independent sellers (I would say very fair). Then there seems to be this artificially inflated prices on some higher end cues no one buys. Dealers getting mad you offer a price on a cue that has been sitting there for over a year. Prices that are completely out of sync with the market.

Are people really buying at some of these prices that are asked? I've seen people take some big hits when selling that is making me wonder who is making the money in these deals, I don't think it's the cuemakers.
Click to expand...

I wonder how all the newer makers are demanding prices that the legendary cuemakers were getting. I guess you don't have to earn your reputation in this day and age. I plan to buy one more high end cue cue and then I am done. The market has been bad for more than several years and I would say is never coming back. I feel bad for all of those collectors that will lose their asses from buying high end cues.

That being said I have a super nice Scruggs you might be interested in.

Kevin
 
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K

knifemakermike

Registered
Kevin Lindstrom said:
I wonder how all the newer makers are demanding prices that the legendary cuemakers were getting. I guess you don't have to earn your reputation in this day and age. I plan to buy one more high end cue cue and then I am done. The market has been bad for more than several years and I would say is never coming back. I feel bad for all of those collectors that will lose their asses from buying high end cues.

That being said I have a super nice Scruggs you might be interested in.

Kevin
Click to expand...

I recently talked to this dealer about a cue I was interested in. He told me he wasn't going to budge on price but admitted the cue had been up for sale for over a year. The price was still high and he was telling me what a great investment it was. Kinda odd when almost everyone I've talked to about cues loses money on them.

Not sure who is making the money but it isn't the cue buyer.
 
G

gxman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Heck look at production cues. So many 800-1K+. Maybe a lot are buying production and less customs.
 
Dave-Kat

Dave-Kat

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am no expert but have seen the custom market softening for sometime, however I believe it is only going to get worse. Sorry to those holding a huge stash to bankroll/flip unless it's from top tier cue craftsman no longer with us or retired with historical significance.

With the introduction of the 'Revo' and subsequent others diving into the composite shaft market who needs a beautiful 'hand crafted' custom 2k+ handle when a $500 shaft and a inexpensive production handle will do fine for them and help improve their game ?

I do not own a composite. I do own customs, I enjoy the unique feel and hit from the various custom builders I own and have owned. I still prefer the 'feel' of maple but probably will snag a composite as things ( price gouging) have settled a bit. Most likely end up like the many other LD's I have owned over the years...away.

Have a good day,

-Kat,
 
M

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Collectors of any area {cues, cars, boats, paintings, art, planes,...} are all subject to market forces.

All financials point to a recession on the horizon.
Expect things to soften (a lot) before they firm up.
 
hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When Predator cues are selling used for $1,000+ there are issues in the cue market, never mind the custom cue prices.
 
Poolhall60561

Poolhall60561

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don’t think a new SW cost $5,000 out of the shop. The dealers have locked up all the new cues and are adding a big mark on them. I’m not a collector, just a player so I just need a good playing cue. I would love to have SW and would be willing to pay a resonanable price for one, but thats never going to happen. For now I’ll just use my Predator.
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Probably not as bad as knives.
Custom knife makers going to China to get production lines made with their names.
Hence their own custom line's resale value devalue like domestic cars from rental place.
Brous Blade for example.
 
K

knifemakermike

Registered
JoeyInCali said:
Probably not as bad as knives.
Custom knife makers going to China to get production lines made with their names.
Hence their own custom line's resale value devalue like domestic cars from rental place.
Brous Blade for example.
Click to expand...

You hit that on the head. Our issue has always been the dealers but it is slowly turning around.
 
Z

Z-Nole

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JoeyInCali said:
Probably not as bad as knives.
Custom knife makers going to China to get production lines made with their names.
Hence their own custom line's resale value devalue like domestic cars from rental place.
Brous Blade for example.
Click to expand...

I don’t know squat about knives (except those Bubba blades can slice some fish!) but wouldn’t this mean if you can prove your knife is pre-China it wouldt it be worth more? And only be worth more over time? Or isn’t it something you can prove?
 
Bavafongoul

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mr. Lindstrom Has a Superb Scruggs Cue....Absolutely Outstanding!

Kevin has a Scruggs cue that is amazing and I fell in love with it at first sight.
So much so I asked if I could copy the design and Kevin was okay with that.

Well, my cue turned out great; Jerry R.’s workmanship was perfect & pretty.
Nonetheless, Kevin’s Scruggs cue attests to why Tim is a legendary name in
cue-making. I just wish I could have gotten the original instead of a substitute.
IMO, I’d place Kevin’s TS cue in the top 10 Scruggs designs I’ve come across.



Matt B.
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Z-Nole said:
I don’t know squat about knives (except those Bubba blades can slice some fish!) but wouldn’t this mean if you can prove your knife is pre-China it wouldt it be worth more? And only be worth more over time? Or isn’t it something you can prove?
Click to expand...

No matter what, that brand will suffer devaluation .
A lot of these "custom" knife makers work with a crew anyway.
So, they make a lot of knives. But, then the owners get a little greedy and then contract a Chinese factory to make knives to his specs. They might even use the same parts except for maybe the blade steel.
These are steels, metals and man made plastics. Not wood.
The Chinese use the same CNC machines.
They make the same knives. All is left probably is just sharpening and polishing.
They can send those to the US makers and get them done.
They then sell the knives a lot cheaper than the US made ones.

And the US makers expect their knives to sell for the same price before ?
 
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K

knifemakermike

Registered
Z-Nole said:
I don’t know squat about knives (except those Bubba blades can slice some fish!) but wouldn’t this mean if you can prove your knife is pre-China it wouldt it be worth more? And only be worth more over time? Or isn’t it something you can prove?
Click to expand...

No, knife world is different. The exclusivity is in handmade non-autonomous designs that are 1-off. In demand makers started selling or leasing their designs to chinese manufacturers. So a custom $3-5k knife you can get the design now for $200 in a very high quality knife. The materials aren't nice but the design and action was good. The customs dropped a lot in value because of the production knives called midtechs (means semi-custom).

Guys like me never sold our custom designs, I did do a midtech but I made a completely new design just for that project. My knives are still $3k+, I'm very conscientious about keeping my value for my customers.

I also never sell to dealers directly. That is what is breaking the market, dealers turn around and make 2-3x the price they got the knife for. Makers would sell to dealers because they paid upfront and they could get a huge amount of money and not deal with customers. After the makers became aware of how much they could charge they raised their price and etc.

It's a mess. The knife market is a lot bigger than the cue market by a great sum.

My question is their aren't that many people buying these highend cues from what I see, what's keeping the prices so high when they aren't selling.

I can tell you I've played a lot of pool but have rarely ever met someone with a highend custom
 
fastone371

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
I guess the days of me ever buying a custom cue have gone out the window, it would need to be a very special cue for me to pay even just $2K. I guess I will just call it close enough with my Titlist conversion that I already own.
 
Texas Carom Club

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
fastone371 said:
I guess the days of me ever buying a custom cue have gone out the window, it would need to be a very special cue for me to pay even just $2K. I guess I will just call it close enough with my Titlist conversion that I already own.
Click to expand...

SAME!
titleist conversion is my main player


And my back to cues are just 1 piece butts
Cheapest custom players you can get
 
jimmyco

jimmyco

NRA4Life
Silver Member
knifemakermike said:
No, knife world is different. The exclusivity is in handmade non-autonomous designs that are 1-off. In demand makers started selling or leasing their designs to chinese manufacturers. So a custom $3-5k knife you can get the design now for $200 in a very high quality knife. The materials aren't nice but the design and action was good. The customs dropped a lot in value because of the production knives called midtechs (means semi-custom).

Guys like me never sold our custom designs, I did do a midtech but I made a completely new design just for that project. My knives are still $3k+, I'm very conscientious about keeping my value for my customers.

I also never sell to dealers directly. That is what is breaking the market, dealers turn around and make 2-3x the price they got the knife for. Makers would sell to dealers because they paid upfront and they could get a huge amount of money and not deal with customers. After the makers became aware of how much they could charge they raised their price and etc.

It's a mess. The knife market is a lot bigger than the cue market by a great sum.

My question is their aren't that many people buying these highend cues from what I see, what's keeping the prices so high when they aren't selling.

I can tell you I've played a lot of pool but have rarely ever met someone with a highend custom
Click to expand...

Mike,
Do you have an online portfolio of your work?

Would love to see some examples your hand made knives.

Thank you.
 
K

knifemakermike

Registered
jimmyco said:
Mike,
Do you have an online portfolio of your work?

Would love to see some examples your hand made knives.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

My books have been closed for a longtime so I don’t do any marketing. I will hold a lotto once in awhile. I do keep WIP pics on Instagram mike_nguyen_knives. And they are handmade no automation, I build every component except screws.

Ok back to cues, still wondering why the cue market seems not to react to demand like other markets. Other markets price drops when inventory sits.
 
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