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08-16-2019, 10:20 AM

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Originally Posted by Kid Dynomite View Post
I agree with this comment! I don't want government making any medical decisions for me at all!!!

Kd

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Then stop voting for pieces of shit like the bamster.


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08-16-2019, 10:22 AM

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Originally Posted by sjb View Post
What a worthless poll question. Here it is, from the actual poll:

"Are you or are you not willing to pay more in taxes to ensure universal health care coverage for every American?"

I'd venture to say that, if you put in virtually any statement on any subject after "willing to pay more in taxes," that a majority are always going to answer "no."

The question omits a very important part of the "universal health care" equation. That is, that to a significant extent -- or possibly even entirely -- an increase in taxes would be offset by the elimination of health care insurance premiums, co-pays and deductibles that people pay now. It's possible that many people could actually see an increase in their net disposable income, even though their tax bill is higher. That might make a substantial difference in the results of the poll.
Sure, if you lie to people, which is what you are proposing, you can change the results.

You could also make the question:

Would you or would you not like to pay for lower quality of health care and decrease access to health care by increasing taxes?

But that would just be more honest than your proposed question.


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08-16-2019, 10:22 AM

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Originally Posted by HawaiianEye View Post
In other news...36% of voters don't pay taxes...


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08-16-2019, 10:23 AM

Do you consider availability a medical decision? How about quality or quantity?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Dynomite View Post
I agree with this comment! I don't want government making any medical decisions for me at all!!!

Kd

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08-16-2019, 10:23 AM

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Originally Posted by Kid Dynomite View Post
I agree with this comment! I don't want government making any medical decisions for me at all!!!

Kd

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Then you agree that Obama was malicious and the ACA should be dismantled.


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08-16-2019, 10:24 AM

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Originally Posted by 336Robin View Post
That's interesting. I wonder how many of them are paying for their own
insurance? Most of them probably have it through their employer who would gladly like
to stop paying for it. Shouldn't the burden of insurance be on the Insured?

I'll never forget one poster here who argued with me saying I pay for my own! When in
fact his employer paid the most of it. When your employer pays for it then the goods
and services they sell cost more to compensate for it. Isn't that a form of socialism? lol

We are being made to pay for your benefits? Why not have the Insured pay?

Perhaps people want the freedom to stick someone else with the bill!

Trump does that a lot. He still owes a bunch of cities up into the millions for his political rallies.

Yeah we need the right to screw people over and make them pay for our stuff, so we don't have to.
I agree with you about this. If you want insurance to be fixed by a free market...it has to be a free market. Right now it's not. The people receiving the benefit are not the people paying and in fact, the insured are the product, not the customer.


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08-16-2019, 11:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Dynomite View Post
I agree with this comment! I don't want government making any medical decisions for me at all!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopdoc View Post
Then you agree that Obama was malicious and the ACA should be dismantled.
What medical decisions for individuals does the government make under the ACA?
  
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08-16-2019, 11:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Dynomite View Post
Who says that they have to?

Just like who says every illegal immigrant is to be deported?

Tax illegal immigrants a much higher rate than legal immigrants and citizens as a penalty for violation of the law! That surplus would more than cover Medicare for all....

But, republicans are against anything other than deportation. Can't have them here tipping the scales in a liberal direction. People may have to work and compete for a living....

Kd

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sure, because you "crunched" the numbers and it all works, right? LOL

what about the other folks competing for jobs with illegals. What about wages stagnated because illegals do work for less. What about all that extra crime. What about their carbon footprint on the planet? What about the additional garbage they will create. What about all that money being sent back home.

Actually, I can't think of one positive thing illegals bring to this country, not one.


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08-16-2019, 12:01 PM

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Originally Posted by sjb View Post
What medical decisions for individuals does the government make under the ACA?
Minor decisions like whether you buy groceries or figure out how to pay the insanely high monthly premium. Whether you file for bankruptcy or figure out how to pay the $12,000 deductible. Whether you're willing to figure out a way to pay for the cancer treatment not covered by the worthless policy or just die.


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08-16-2019, 12:04 PM

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Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
Minor decisions like whether you buy groceries or figure out how to pay the insanely high monthly premium. Whether you file for bankruptcy or figure out how to pay the $12,000 deductible. Whether you're willing to figure out a way to pay for the cancer treatment not covered by the worthless policy or just die.
I'm curious: What is a normal montly premium for health insurance, versus the one in the ACA? What about deductible? I'm talking about typical numbers for the age group that actually need the coverage, not a healty 20 year old. Would the ACA cover you if you had a so called "pre-existing condition"? Would they have detectives go over your forms to look for typos and the like?

I'm not an expert on the ACA, but to me it seems like a sort of health insurance paid for by the goverment, rather than the system many European nations have? Is that accurate?

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08-16-2019, 12:15 PM

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Originally Posted by Straightpool_99 View Post
but to me it seems like a sort of health insurance paid for by the goverment,
Yeah, cause the government has its own money.
I just imagined sending $60k to DC last year.


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08-16-2019, 12:22 PM

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Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
Yeah, cause the government has its own money.
I just imagined sending $60k to DC last year.
I mean that the structure of how it works is like a private health insurance paid by taxes, rather than a single payer system. That to me seems like the worst of all worlds. The excluding and cost driving measures of health insurance, combined with inefficiency and increased beauraucracy.
  
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08-16-2019, 12:34 PM

Working in health care at a hospital has given me a unique perspective.

I want to choose when I die! I don't want to live 2 more years bed ridden and bankrupt my family...

Versus

Not bankrupting my family and dying right then and there! Dr.kevorkian here I come! I just don't want my last days on earth spent in a piss poor way!

I also don't want the state saying I have to be a paraplegic . So, no I don't want government in my medical decisions. I would prefer a medical financial accounts that we pay into and can decide how and when to use it! Of course, the remainder goes to your family and you can choose to kick the bucket and leave something to the ones you love or hang on and eradicate the account...

Kd

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08-16-2019, 12:46 PM

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Originally Posted by ChicagoRJ View Post
sure, because you "crunched" the numbers and it all works, right? LOL

what about the other folks competing for jobs with illegals. What about wages stagnated because illegals do work for less. What about all that extra crime. What about their carbon footprint on the planet? What about the additional garbage they will create. What about all that money being sent back home.

Actually, I can't think of one positive thing illegals bring to this country, not one.
Well, you do get cheap babysitters, gardeners, dishwashers etc...If they weren't so in demand, people wouldn't hire them. I bet the people who whine the most have at one time or other hired an illegal to do some yard work...To me it seems like a paradox, how most right wingers claim to be so much against illegal immigrants. They circumvent unions, minimum wage, labour laws, work safety regulations, all the stuff you think is bad. No need for any processes or courts, if you don't like someone, they blow the whistle on your shady practises just report them and have them deported. Or you could just shoot them and bury them in the yard. It's not like the police would care to look for them.

Plus low wages adds revenue to the companies that hire them. The people who own these companies will reinvest this money much better than the people who work for them, according to the trickle down logic of conservatives, so it's much better for society. You'll get all the wealth concentrated in the most competent hands. You really should encourage more to come over. Then you can have the Dickensian nightmare of Laizzes-faire capitalism. 19th century London FTW. Smog, starvation, child labour, illiteracy, epidemics and you didn't even have to change the law. The law is mostly bullshit, anyway, people have way too many rights, right? Hiring an illegal is a perfect market. You want the yard fixed and the house painted? Jose will do it for a sandwich, but Pablo will do it for half a sandwich and doesn't require any safety equipment or breaks. No interference, the invisible hand will guide every transaction. It's easy to see how that will benefit the working class, especially. So many job opportunities, with no regulations of any kind to hold you back.

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08-16-2019, 12:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Dynomite View Post
Working in health care at a hospital has given me a unique perspective.

I want to choose when I die! I don't want to live 2 more years bed ridden and bankrupt my family...

Versus

Not bankrupting my family and dying right then and there! Dr.kevorkian here I come! I just don't want my last days on earth spent in a piss poor way!

I also don't want the state saying I have to be a paraplegic . So, no I don't want government in my medical decisions. I would prefer a medical financial accounts that we pay into and can decide how and when to use it! Of course, the remainder goes to your family and you can choose to kick the bucket and leave something to the ones you love or hang on and eradicate the account...

Kd

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damn KD... I agree 100% with you... sweet!

now be forewarned that if you choose to commit suicide with a firearm, the Left will add you to the "death by firearms" number they constantly shout out, conveniently neglecting to mention that suicide makes up, by far, the largest percentage of firearm deaths... without guns, you, and I, will be forced to spend every cent of money we have to insurance companies, nursing care, etc., with nothing left for family... being "old" will definitely count as a reason to confiscate guns in the near future
  
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