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08-18-2019, 01:27 PM

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Originally Posted by Alan View Post
You've taken a terrible turn. I may disagree with you on politics and policy, but I never thought you'd go as far as support a violent group like ANTIFA. There have been several threads on this board about that group and to date, the only person openly supporting them was PoolFool. I hope you come to your senses and realize that their terrorist ways are destructive and support for them is a mistake of judgment.
And I still openly support the philosophy of ANTIFA. Were Trump or any other politician to designate them a terrorist group, I would, in that instance, consider the designation a badge of honor considering the source(s) and the motivation behind that chickenshit hypocritical move


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08-18-2019, 03:02 PM

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08-18-2019, 03:30 PM

Andrew McCarthy strongly objects to this suggestion in his current column for many practical and principled reasons, and worries of the slippery slope precedent (here).

I find it fairly persuasive, and his concerns are from the conservative perspective as a former law enforcement official (Asst. US Attorney). The entire thing is worth reading, but I'll excerpt his closing paragraphs now.

Quote:
Let’s put aside the civil-rights concerns for a moment. The principal effect of a formal, national designation process would be to federalize domestic anti-terrorism enforcement. That is a terrible idea.

We have approximately 35,000 police officers in New York City alone, but fewer than 14,000 FBI agents in the entire country.

From a law-enforcement perspective, the best protection we have against domestic terrorism is state, city, and municipal police. They are vastly more numerous than federal law-enforcement agents. (We have, for instance, approximately 35,000 police officers in New York City alone, but fewer than 14,000 FBI agents in the entire country.) The locals have more and often better intelligence sources at the street level, where domestic terrorism occurs, than their federal counterparts. Indeed, this is why the FBI invites robust local law-enforcement participation in its Joint Terrorism Task Forces, which are designed to combat both international and domestic terrorist operations on U.S. soil.

In the course of planning and carrying out their forcible intimidation, domestic terrorists commit many state crimes. These can be difficult for the feds to charge because they often lack a clear jurisdictional hook — e.g., some effect on interstate commerce. If domestic terrorism is going to be thwarted, local law-enforcement must be the point of the spear. This is not to say the feds do not have a role; in fact, they provide critical enforcement assistance, such as intelligence, interstate coordination, and prosecutions under RICO, civil-rights, and weapons-of-mass-destruction laws. If the feds nationalized domestic terrorism, however, it would deplete the sparse but essential resources necessary to combat international terrorism. State and local law enforcement would lack the jurisdiction to fill such a void.

Let’s close by getting back to the civil-rights concerns. I know this sounds crazy, but Donald Trump will not be president forever. In fact, he hasn’t been president that long . . . meaning, it was not so long ago that we were dealing with an Obama administration — and its media-Democrat pom-pom squads — that regarded limited-government conservatives, Second Amendment proponents, and many veterans returning from overseas military service as “right-wing extremists” who posed a threat of “domestic terrorism.” Someday, maybe sooner than we’d like to think, Democrats are going to be in power again. Do we really want to give them enhanced federal powers to harass ideological opponents under the guise of “designating” domestic terrorist threats?

Right this minute, in terms of confronting Antifa or any other domestic terrorist organization, we have a more robust array of state and federal law-enforcement powers than we have ever had. Moreover, coordination between federal and state law-enforcement and national-security officers is as good as it has ever been. All that is required to gut Antifa is the will to do it — the will to say, “Regardless of our disparate political views, we Americans draw the line at violent extortion that eviscerates our right to speak, assemble, and engage in constitutionally protected political activity.”

I’d humbly suggest we work on that, rather than wasting our energy on meaningless and potentially counterproductive theater like designating domestic terrorist organizations.


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08-18-2019, 03:56 PM

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Originally Posted by poolfool1957 View Post
And I still openly support the philosophy of ANTIFA. Were Trump or any other politician to designate them a terrorist group, I would, in that instance, consider the designation a badge of honor considering the source(s) and the motivation behind that chickenshit hypocritical move
then you don't know what fascism is

softy has one version of it in a meme above... do you think he is describing the Left and it's "conform or else" mentality or the Right and it's "leave us alone" mentality?
  
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08-18-2019, 07:20 PM

Whether Trump or anyone "officially" names them a terror group is irrelevant. They are a terror group. They create an amorphous definition of fascism and then add or change things as they see fit. Currently the definition is morphing into anything supported by the Right. In their view, Trump is a fascist and they hate fascists or anyone who supports an ANTIFA defined fascist. Their "philosophy" as you put it is to commit violence to people they target. That's not a philosophy, it's a tactic and it puts me in their sights. The fact that you support the beating of people like me is disgusting. People like you that support this nonsensical violence will eventually have blood on their hands when there is a clash. That "badge of honor" you want to where will be a "red badge of courage" for some dumb idiot ANTIFA "soldier" that you support. You are ill guided and dead wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by poolfool1957 View Post
And I still openly support the philosophy of ANTIFA. Were Trump or any other politician to designate them a terrorist group, I would, in that instance, consider the designation a badge of honor considering the source(s) and the motivation behind that chickenshit hypocritical move
  
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08-18-2019, 08:07 PM

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Originally Posted by 336Robin View Post
How can I condone something I don't know anything about. I don't follow antifa. I just know Republicans don't like them. I know they purport themselves as anti-fascist. So whats wrong with being anti-fascist?

Why would anyone be for fascism?
They claim to be anti fascist the same as North Korea claims to be a democratic. Antifa most certainly is against fascists. I'm not going to pretend that they aren't. Their problem is that they've become what they supposedly hate. Anyone they disagree with is a fascist and they employ fascist techniques to deal with anyone they disagree with.

They are most certainly domestic terrorist as much as any white nationalist organization is.


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08-18-2019, 08:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by softshot View Post
Attachment 527479
A Mirror for the Trumpers
Interesting meme.

Who's the fascist?

Milo for speaking, or the ppl who violently tried to shut down his speech? The same goes for Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris etc. Heck, I'd imagine that I could do a search and pull up comedians that were shut down by the same types if political speech is a bridge you can't cross.

Which side do you think is espousing fascism more? The side who doesn't want to make a cake for a gay wedding, or the side that puts ppl in jail for misgendering someone (online no less)? Is it the side who denies climate change, or the side that says ppl that deny climate change should be in jail?

The theme between both sides has been that one side disagrees, the other disagrees behind the power of the government, or at least wants it to be that way.


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08-18-2019, 09:08 PM

I would bet my last dollar that Softshot has next to no real knowledge regarding Henry A. Wallace. Oliver Stone is in love with the Henry A. Wallace.

Thank God the Demo party brahmins decided to get rid of old Henry. Henry thought the US and the Soviet Union were gonna jointly rule in the post WW2 world, in an era of the common man.

Henry was duped by the Bolsheviks. It was so bad, he was their chump.

In Softshot's meme everything he says about fascism you can say about communism. The idea that communism solved racism is a joke and a lie.

Just ask the Ukrainians if communism solved racism. Mao was totally xenophobic and racist. So many communist revolutions had nationalistic underpinnings.

The left loves to lie about the past. Softshot it's time to do some woodshedding.

Go to the library.
  
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08-18-2019, 11:39 PM

and this goes right here...
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08-18-2019, 11:53 PM

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Andrew McCarthy strongly objects to this suggestion in his current column for many practical and principled reasons, and worries of the slippery slope precedent (here).

I find it fairly persuasive, and his concerns are from the conservative perspective as a former law enforcement official (Asst. US Attorney). The entire thing is worth reading, but I'll excerpt his closing paragraphs now.
Funny how those arguments never come up when talking about the tea party or the proud boys. Weird.


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08-19-2019, 01:02 AM

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Originally Posted by poolfool1957 View Post
And I still openly support the philosophy of ANTIFA. Were Trump or any other politician to designate them a terrorist group, I would, in that instance, consider the designation a badge of honor considering the source(s) and the motivation behind that chickenshit hypocritical move
https://www.newsweek.com/antifa-viol...-video-1082072

That’s what you support. And that’s only one small incident. To each their own, I guess.
  
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08-19-2019, 02:14 AM

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They claim to be anti fascist the same as North Korea claims to be a democratic. Antifa most certainly is against fascists. I'm not going to pretend that they aren't. Their problem is that they've become what they supposedly hate. Anyone they disagree with is a fascist and they employ fascist techniques to deal with anyone they disagree with.

They are most certainly domestic terrorist as much as any white nationalist organization is.
That right above is my entire point. Why single Antifa out when the field is full
of them and if your read Sofla's post above, doing so limits what can be done to them.

We have more tools right now than we've ever had.

What's really going on here is a political move to silence them. If we do that, how long
will it be before they do the same to law abiding citizens? Why not do the same to the whole ring of violent Nationalist movements?

Its purely political.


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08-19-2019, 02:42 AM

I don't think my grandfather would appreciate you equating him to a vigilante terrorist. He was anti- fascist, as am I. ANTIFA is not ONLY anti-fascist. That's the problem with that group. They are against what they define as fascist, which includes free speech and capitalism. As of late, they've decided to expand their definition of fascism to the Republican party or at least part of it. They are hiding under the guise of fighting fascism, but in reality are more like anarchists. My grandfather was not an anarchist.


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08-19-2019, 06:44 AM

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I don't think my grandfather would appreciate you equating him to a vigilante terrorist. He was anti- fascist, as am I. ANTIFA is not ONLY anti-fascist. That's the problem with that group. They are against what they define as fascist, which includes free speech and capitalism. As of late, they've decided to expand their definition of fascism to the Republican party or at least part of it. They are hiding under the guise of fighting fascism, but in reality are more like anarchists. My grandfather was not an anarchist.
I wonder if he had to chose.....would he side with those who show up at these marches with Nazi dress or those who chose to stand against them.
Be honest now Alan


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08-19-2019, 08:03 AM

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Originally Posted by 336Robin View Post
That right above is my entire point. Why single Antifa out when the field is full
of them and if your read Sofla's post above, doing so limits what can be done to them.

We have more tools right now than we've ever had.

What's really going on here is a political move to silence them. If we do that, how long
will it be before they do the same to law abiding citizens? Why not do the same to the whole ring of violent Nationalist movements?

Its purely political.
The answer to that is simple. White supremacist groups are condemned by the right and left, including in the media and banned from social media as they should be. Antifa is condemned by the right and right wing media, but largely given a pass by the left and left wing media. They most certainly aren't banned on social media.


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