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08-20-2017, 10:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepage View Post
I don't know the answer. But there are many different factors that affect the rebound angle--some that want to lengthen it and others that want to shorten it. And there is a lot of these effects tending to canceling to get what we see.

Here are a few of those effects and what they depend on

A. (lengthen) topspin -- when an object ball rolls into the cushion, it has topspin. Some of that forward spin can remain just after the bounce (that is, the ball is coming back, but it is still spinning forward a bit.) This leads to the object ball curving back toward the rail in a masse-like effect. The amount of topspin that remains will depend on the slickness of the rail cloth as well as perhaps the profile/height. Also the stickier the bed cloth, the sooner after the bounce this happens and the bigger the apparent effect. This effect would be really big on new rail cloth and old bed cloth. [Banks hit hard come off shorter primarily because this effect is missing--the hard-hit object ball slides into the rail instead of rolling into it]

B. (shorten) When a ball goes into a cushion at an angle and does NOT have running english--the case for an object ball--it is effect has check/reverse english. This tends to shorten banks, and the amount it shortens them depends on the stickiness/slickness of the rail cloth. --small effect on new cloth.

C. (lengthen) inelastic/dead/not-lively cushions: tends to lengthen banks like a gold-ball or baseball going into softer ground--doesn't bounce as high.

D. (shorten) -- the crunched cushion wanting to spit balls straight out -- I don't know if this effect is real or not. My tendency is to think it is more myth than reality. I'd be interested to hear what Dave A or Bob J think.

So I don't know if there is a simple answer.
Thanks mike
  
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  (#17)
realkingcobra
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08-20-2017, 10:34 AM

I hope Mark Gregory is reading this thread as well, maybe we'll both learn something....LMAO
  
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  (#18)
realkingcobra
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08-20-2017, 10:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
Glen
Could you give me the short answer and we can be done with this thread
Pretty please.
I've answered this very same question many times in the past.....right here in the main forum.....already
  
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Old
  (#19)
mikepage
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08-20-2017, 10:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepage View Post
I don't know the answer. But there are many different factors that affect the rebound angle--some that want to lengthen it and others that want to shorten it. And there is a lot of these effects tending to canceling to get what we see.

Here are a few of those effects and what they depend on

A. (lengthen) topspin -- when an object ball rolls into the cushion, it has topspin. Some of that forward spin can remain just after the bounce (that is, the ball is coming back, but it is still spinning forward a bit.) This leads to the object ball curving back toward the rail in a masse-like effect. The amount of topspin that remains will depend on the slickness of the rail cloth as well as perhaps the profile/height. Also the stickier the bed cloth, the sooner after the bounce this happens and the bigger the apparent effect. This effect would be really big on new rail cloth and old bed cloth. [Banks hit hard come off shorter primarily because this effect is missing--the hard-hit object ball slides into the rail instead of rolling into it]

B. (shorten) When a ball goes into a cushion at an angle and does NOT have running english--the case for an object ball--it is effect has check/reverse english. This tends to shorten banks, and the amount it shortens them depends on the stickiness/slickness of the rail cloth. --small effect on new cloth.

C. (lengthen) inelastic/dead/not-lively cushions: tends to lengthen banks like a gold-ball or baseball going into softer ground--doesn't bounce as high.

D. (shorten) -- the crunched cushion wanting to spit balls straight out -- I don't know if this effect is real or not. My tendency is to think it is more myth than reality. I'd be interested to hear what Dave A or Bob J think.

So I don't know if there is a simple answer.
Would like to hear realkingcobra's response after he enjoys himself a bit ;-)

I'm guessing that height/profile affects how the ball is spinning in the toward/away from the rail direction.


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J SCHWARZ
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08-20-2017, 10:41 AM

Posted by Steve Booth over at 1p.org. Pretty much sums up why Diamonds are made to play the way they do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Steve View Post
I certainly don't know the science behind the way Diamond tables bank, but there is a wide-ranging interview with Greg Sullivan from a few years ago where he goes into detail about the history and the "why's" for the way Diamond tables are. I am pretty sure in this interview he talks about the banking. Greg has loved bank pool for a long time -- well before he started Diamond. I think there in that interview he talked about engineering the Diamond rails so that they could be worked with by a skilled shooter, to stretch a bank, shorten a bank, or true a bank -- all depending on how you hit it. He considered this to be an important tool for the shooter, so that the shooter could do more with their banking. That is why Diamonds can bank long when hit slow and with opening english, or shortened with speed an hold-up english.

So if you are saying "Diamonds bank shorter" or GC's bank shorter, it was intended by Greg Sullivan to not be that simple. He wanted to give bankers a cushion/rail design that gives them tools to broaden the range of makable banks.

https://youtu.be/qQCWA9LFhu0
  
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  (#21)
mchnhed
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08-20-2017, 10:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
Glen
Could you give me the short answer and we can be done with this thread
Pretty please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
I can't wait to read more answers....LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
I hope Mark Gregory is reading this thread as well, maybe we'll both learn something....LMAO
Quote:
Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
I've answered this very same question many times in the past.....right here in the main forum.....already
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepage View Post
Would like to hear realkingcobra's response after he enjoys himself a bit ;-)

I'm guessing that height/profile affects how the ball is spinning in the toward/away from the rail direction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchnhed View Post
So again....
Same Brand of Cushions.
Same Batch Number of Cushions.
Same Cushion Height.
Same Bolt of Cloth.
Same Humidity.
Same Ball Set.
Same Robot Cue.
Same Pocket Size.
Same Shelf Depth.
Same Time Zone.

*****Would they play the same?*****


No.

There's more to it than all of that.
Glenn,
I know you are enjoying this........

But if all of the variables were to be the same Except for the rails.......
Would they be even close to playing the same?


Shoot Pool
Not People
  
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  (#22)
realkingcobra
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08-20-2017, 10:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mchnhed View Post
Glenn,
I know you are enjoying this........

But if all of the variables were to be the same Except for the rails.......
Would they be even close to playing the same?
Here's my answer to that. I can make a Diamond and a GC play identical to each other if i wanted to but i AM enjoying the reasons everyone's giving


LOL
  
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  (#23)
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08-20-2017, 11:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
I hope Mark Gregory is reading this thread as well, maybe we'll both learn something....LMAO
I hope he reads it too as your attitude makes me second guess the support I might receive when I get my Diamond. It's disconcerting to say the least.



.

"Pool and sex are the only two things you can enjoy without being good at either one."

It doesn't matter if you win or lose, it's whether or not you beat the spread.


.
  
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  (#24)
JoeyInCali
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08-20-2017, 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosst View Post
I hope he reads it too as your attitude makes me second guess the support I might receive when I get my Diamond. It's disconcerting to say the least.
Csll him and ask him about the Artemis cushions.


  
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realkingcobra
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08-20-2017, 11:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosst View Post
I hope he reads it too as your attitude makes me second guess the support I might receive when I get my Diamond. It's disconcerting to say the least.
New Diamond? Nothing to worry about.
  
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realkingcobra
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08-20-2017, 11:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
Csll him and ask him about the Artemis cushions.
I think the whole world know all about your dislike for Artemis cushion, but YOU are the only reason your table still has them on the rails....LOL
  
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  (#27)
JoeyInCali
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08-20-2017, 11:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
I think the whole world know all about your dislike for Artemis cushion, but YOU are the only reason your table still has them on the rails....LOL
Lol lol lol
Wait, another lol.
Yeah, Mark loves them too.
Lol
Wait another lol.
Your blue label is a band aid solution.
Lol
Wait, another lol.


  
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  (#28)
realkingcobra
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08-20-2017, 11:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
Lol lol lol
Wait, another lol.
Yeah, Mark loves them too.
Lol
Wait another lol.
Your blue label is a band aid solution.
Lol
Wait, another lol.
Yep, you know it all, and where's all the people complaining that already own Diamond 9ft blue label tables with Artemis cushions, oh that's right, they're NOT complaining....LOL
  
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JoeyInCali
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08-20-2017, 11:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
Yep, you know it all, and where's all the people complaining that already own Diamond 9ft blue label tables with Artemis cushions, oh that's right, they're NOT complaining....LOL
Err, yes.
They bank short.
Jay included.
A world champion banker said they bank short and GC's bank long.
You're in Pluto.


  
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JoeyInCali
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08-20-2017, 11:58 AM

Wait, lol.
You're an old juvenile.


  
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