Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Main Category > Main Forum
Reload this Page Simplest answer why diamonds play/bank short
Reply
Page 5 of 8 « First 345 67 Last »
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old
  (#61)
gregcantrall
Center Ball
gregcantrall has a reputation beyond reputegregcantrall has a reputation beyond reputegregcantrall has a reputation beyond reputegregcantrall has a reputation beyond reputegregcantrall has a reputation beyond reputegregcantrall has a reputation beyond reputegregcantrall has a reputation beyond reputegregcantrall has a reputation beyond reputegregcantrall has a reputation beyond reputegregcantrall has a reputation beyond reputegregcantrall has a reputation beyond repute
 
gregcantrall's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,293
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Blog Entries: 7
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: my motor home
   
08-21-2017, 02:41 PM

There was a place in Redding, CA that had a 7 foot valley, that the rubber was loose at the foot of the table. Apparently it had come loose at the two points where rackers would grab the rails to stand up from retrieving the balls. It was loose for just about a foot at either side of the foot rail. Where the rubber was loose a ball would do just the opposite of what you would expect. A ball that should open up would back up and vise versa. Not just a little but a lot.

They had a weekly tournament and it was funny as hell watching the experienced players that were new to the tournament and did not check the rails before playing.
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#62)
AuntyDan
/* Insert skill here */
AuntyDan has a reputation beyond reputeAuntyDan has a reputation beyond reputeAuntyDan has a reputation beyond reputeAuntyDan has a reputation beyond reputeAuntyDan has a reputation beyond reputeAuntyDan has a reputation beyond reputeAuntyDan has a reputation beyond reputeAuntyDan has a reputation beyond reputeAuntyDan has a reputation beyond reputeAuntyDan has a reputation beyond reputeAuntyDan has a reputation beyond repute
 
AuntyDan's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 2,064
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Darkest Southern California
   
08-22-2017, 06:44 PM

Used to be a bad rail on that at a Pool Hall I played at years ago, rubber on the head rail was lose and the point drooped down a good half inch. Anytime you hit it the ball would jump straight up in the air!

The original question was why GC and Diamonds play different. Other than the already discussed differences in the rail rubber itself and the angles, plus variables like age, installer and environmental conditions, I've always assumed the actual physical construction of the rail itself behind the rubber and sub-rail must make a difference.

That includes the type of wood (or other materials as in the case tables like the Sam K-Steel), how the wood is jointed and how the rail is attached to the frame and/or slate. I'd imagine even cosmetic items like the layer of laminate a GC rail has, or whether it hardwood or Dymondwood for the Diamond tables might make a difference to the overall playing characteristics including banking.


Aunty Dan
"For 'tis the sport to have the engineer
Hoist with his own petard."
W. Shakespeare
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#63)
Poolplaya9
Tellin' it like it is...
Poolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Poolplaya9's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,533
vCash: 800
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Join Date: Aug 2005
  Send a message via AIM to Poolplaya9  
08-23-2017, 12:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepage View Post
That could be true, but I will point out that the usual situation for friction is that the increased contact area does NOT lead to more friction force.

If you think of dragging a 2X4 over carpet. The pulling force is the same whether it is on the "2" side or the "4" side. Twice as much contact area on the "4" side, but half the weight per square inch--and those things cancel.
So you think that the differing PSI force curves, contact patch sizes, and durations of contact that result from harder or softer rubber cushions (and bigger and smaller cushion noses/profiles etc for that matter) all end up netting out the exact same amount of total friction? I would be curious to know for sure how everything nets out exactly in the "real world" with the cushions of different hardness (and profile) just for curiosity sake even if the net differences were fairly negligible.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#64)
realkingcobra
AzB Silver Member
realkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond repute
 
realkingcobra's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 16,987
vCash: 5785
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: On the road everywhere.
   
08-23-2017, 08:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepage View Post
That could be true, but I will point out that the usual situation for friction is that the increased contact area does NOT lead to more friction force.

If you think of dragging a 2X4 over carpet. The pulling force is the same whether it is on the "2" side or the "4" side. Twice as much contact area on the "4" side, but half the weight per square inch--and those things cancel.
You're comparing resistance to friction, not the same thing. Take 2 identical cars pushing 1500hp each. One car has 6" wide back tires, while the second car has 18" wide rear tires. Which car do you think is going to win a 1/4 mile drag race, the car that gets more friction from the rear tires?
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#65)
fastone371
AzB Silver Member
fastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond repute
 
fastone371's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,684
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Theresa, Wisconsin
   
08-23-2017, 01:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garczar View Post
Thats exactly what I said, they change the angle the cushion is mounted to the table.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#66)
mikepage
AzB Gold Member
mikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond repute
 
mikepage's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 4,130
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fargo, ND
   
08-23-2017, 03:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
You're comparing resistance to friction, not the same thing. Take 2 identical cars pushing 1500hp each. One car has 6" wide back tires, while the second car has 18" wide rear tires. Which car do you think is going to win a 1/4 mile drag race, the car that gets more friction from the rear tires?
Friction... One concept

Rubber is well known to be weird--doesn't obey normal friction laws


********
mike page
http://www.fargorate.com
player ratings for the world
********
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#67)
mikepage
AzB Gold Member
mikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond reputemikepage has a reputation beyond repute
 
mikepage's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 4,130
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fargo, ND
   
08-23-2017, 03:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolplaya9 View Post
So you think that the differing PSI force curves, contact patch sizes, and durations of contact that result from harder or softer rubber cushions (and bigger and smaller cushion noses/profiles etc for that matter) all end up netting out the exact same amount of total friction?
I am not saying that. But I think any difference is likely not a simple surface area effect. Likely it is more complex and has to do with the effective profile experienced by the ball being different for a compressed cushion.


********
mike page
http://www.fargorate.com
player ratings for the world
********
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#68)
Poolplaya9
Tellin' it like it is...
Poolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond reputePoolplaya9 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Poolplaya9's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,533
vCash: 800
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Join Date: Aug 2005
  Send a message via AIM to Poolplaya9  
08-23-2017, 03:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepage View Post
Likely it is more complex and has to do with the effective profile experienced by the ball being different for a compressed cushion.
If you aren't talking about what I referred to as the "different contact patch sizes" caused by or in conjunction with the different amounts of displacement, compression, and compression force curves for different rubber compositions and different rail profiles then I'm not sure what you are referring to. That's ok though as it would likely be over my head anyway...lol.

Last edited by Poolplaya9; 08-24-2017 at 04:11 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#69)
Johnnybgood
Banned
Johnnybgood has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnybgood has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnybgood has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnybgood has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnybgood has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnybgood has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnybgood has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnybgood has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnybgood has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnybgood has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnybgood has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 518
vCash: 500
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Inland Empire
   
08-23-2017, 11:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mchnhed View Post
What I want to know is why in a room full of Tables no two will play the same as all of the others.



Shouldn't there be a standard that all tables should be calibrated to?



Shouldn't all tables of the same brand and model play the same anywhere and everywhere you go to play?


Yes, yes, and yes!


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#70)
BilliardsAbout
BondFanEvents.com
BilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond repute
 
BilliardsAbout's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,454
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Gainesville, FL
   
08-24-2017, 05:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
COMPARED TO GOLD CROWNS
i know this has been discussed alot but i still dont understand
why diamonds seem to bank short
thanks
*Low heat
*High humidity
*Old cloth
*Thin/worn cloth
*Costly tables (hard rubber)

*Hitting too hard/too fast
*Too much draw
*Too much inside English


-- Matt Sherman

Guide to Pool and Billiards, About.com
Instruction Staff, InsidePool Magazine
Author, book/DVD combo, Picture Yourself Shooting Pool
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#71)
realkingcobra
AzB Silver Member
realkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond reputerealkingcobra has a reputation beyond repute
 
realkingcobra's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 16,987
vCash: 5785
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: On the road everywhere.
   
08-24-2017, 08:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolplaya9 View Post
If you aren't talking about what I referred to as the "different contact patch sizes" caused by or in conjunction with the different amounts of displacement, compression, and compression force curves for different rubber compositions and different rail profiles then I'm not sure what you are referring to. That's ok though as it would likely be over my head anyway...lol.
Single biggest reason as to why pool tables vary in how they play from one to the other has to do with who's been working on them, and most all ppl overlook that fact. When ppl complain about the pool tables and they play, and blame their like or dislike on the POOL table, how smart are they really. If GCs and Diamonds can be made to play great, stands to reason that the vary SAME tables can be made to play like shit as well, yet they were all manufactured the same to begin with.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#72)
mchnhed
I Came, I Shot, I Choked
mchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond repute
 
mchnhed's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,919
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: North Hollywood
   
08-24-2017, 08:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
Single biggest reason as to why pool tables vary in how they play from one to the other has to do with who's been working on them, and most all ppl overlook that fact. When ppl complain about the pool tables and they play, and blame their like or dislike on the POOL table, how smart are they really. If GCs and Diamonds can be made to play great, stands to reason that the vary SAME tables can be made to play like shit as well, yet they were all manufactured the same to begin with.
It takes some real talent to screw up a table.

It took me a long time to learn how to do the rail cloth.
Attached Images
 


Shoot Pool
Not People
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#73)
fastone371
AzB Silver Member
fastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond reputefastone371 has a reputation beyond repute
 
fastone371's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,684
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Theresa, Wisconsin
   
08-24-2017, 03:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mchnhed View Post
It takes some real talent to screw up a table.

It took me a long time to learn how to do the rail cloth.
That looks real good there, I like the way that you were able to do the corner without a fold and you dont use too many staples. Keep up the great work!!!
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#74)
2andOUT
AzB Silver Member
2andOUT has a reputation beyond repute2andOUT has a reputation beyond repute2andOUT has a reputation beyond repute2andOUT has a reputation beyond repute2andOUT has a reputation beyond repute2andOUT has a reputation beyond repute2andOUT has a reputation beyond repute2andOUT has a reputation beyond repute2andOUT has a reputation beyond repute2andOUT has a reputation beyond repute2andOUT has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 175
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Iowa
   
08-24-2017, 09:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mchnhed View Post
So again....
Same Brand of Cushions.
Same Batch Number of Cushions.
Same Cushion Height.
Same Bolt of Cloth.
Same Humidity.
Same Ball Set.
Same Robot Cue.
Same Pocket Size.
Same Shelf Depth.
Same Time Zone.

*****Would they play the same?*****


No.

There's more to it than all of that.

who says NO ? why wouldn't they play the same if all variables are the same ? have you tested this ?


__________________________________________________ __

I only have problems with 2 shots, straight ins and cuts !
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#75)
mchnhed
I Came, I Shot, I Choked
mchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond reputemchnhed has a reputation beyond repute
 
mchnhed's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,919
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: North Hollywood
   
08-24-2017, 09:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2andOUT View Post
who says NO ? why wouldn't they play the same if all variables are the same ? have you tested this ?
Different Rails.


Shoot Pool
Not People
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 5 of 8 « First 345 67 Last »

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.